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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2012, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by username View Post
Does the govt. not have tables to calculate spousal support ?
They have guidelines, however they are not simple tables as SS considers many more factors as compared to child support.
  #62 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2012, 02:30 PM
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Default An Intelligent Lawyer

Only took me three years of searching to find an intelligent lawyer but I found one! Of course she left Family Court because of the corruption and criminal behaviour so there is likely 0% intelligent lawyers in Family Court still. I think it is really important to post this for everyone to see.

For those people looking for me, I apologize for not being online. I'm going to clear out my inbox today so you can send me messages. I am challenging the validity of the child support and spousal support guidelines in court. It's an uphill battle because criminals (ie lawyers) protect themselves. But I hope it will get noticed as I plan on taking it right to trial. Anyway here is this very important post.

Dear Mr. Newman,

I am certainly aware of the problem you raise, and have known about it for many years.

In 1998, I was a witness before a senate committee examining the child support guidelines. Here are the links to my written presentation, and to my speech. If you search for the word “software” on these pages, you will find my remarks on that subject.

Here is what I told them when I met with the committee in person:

“The next point is the issue of computer software. This is tied into the criticism that these guidelines are not simple -- and I believe a number of other witnesses have expressed the same view and I agree with them wholeheartedly. In fact, the guidelines are so difficult to implement that we have all been told, in effect, to go out and buy software programs to run these things.

“I have not bought the commercial software. I have cobbled up my own computer template to use in my office. By doing that, I was forced to go through the guidelines in great detail. It was beneficial for me to spend the time doing so. The expectation that we must go out and buy computer programs to do this is, I think, offensive. What it really means is that the ordinary person cannot do this and must go to a lawyer. It also means that lawyers must buy software. In that regard, I was particularly annoyed by the fact that in all of the presentations that I have seen, both by the Law Society of Upper Canada to lawyers in Ontario and now in the government's official reference manual that it will distribute to anyone in Canada who needs one of these things, only one company's software is mentioned. In actual fact, three different companies, at least, have produced software for this. Barry Gardiner, a developer of one of the software packages, was a witness before this committee. He did not raise this issue but, frankly, I wonder how he feels having developed software which in my view is very good. His software, called "Child View," does an extremely good presentation of the results. I wonder how he feels, knowing that every person in Canada who will be dealing with these issues will be given a copy of the output of his competition's software.

“I do not think the process was fair. It almost looks like an endorsement of one company's product over another.

“I was even more alarmed to read Mr. Gardiner's comment that different computer software actually produces different results, because such varied interpretation is possible in these guidelines that the programmers cannot all produce the same results. So much for predictability and so much for treating people in like situations alike.”

Unfortunately, the machinery of state-sanctioned ignorance rolled on, ignoring my comments. The spousal support guidelines came into effect a few years before I left the field of family law. I hated them, but I didn’t delve into them in as much detail because I knew the futility of doing so. I finally did break down and buy DivorceMate because it seemed impossible to continue representing clients without it. That was all the judges knew and used. From my perspective, all I could do was tinker with the input to place my client in the most favourable light.

I no longer practice family law (thank goodness) and don’t have enough time to write about the many other issues that now occupy my time, so it is unlikely that I will find time to take up the battle on your issue now. However, you can send me your stuff if you wish. I’m just not promising that I’ll get around to reading it, or doing anything about it.

Karen Selick

From: Robert Newman
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 11:00:36 -0300
To: Karen Selick
Subject: Family Court - Spousal Support

Dear Ms Selick:

I came across something you wrote from 1997 where you lamented the sad state of family court and how you were considering getting out of it.

In the 15 years since you wrote that article, it has gotten much worse.

Now they have spousal support guidelines and a spousal support calculator called Tools 2K12 sold to lawyers by Divorcemate.

You may think that is a step in the right direction but here is the reality.

The Divorcemate program has dozens and dozens of errors in it and even where it does work properly lawyers are too incompetent to complete it properly.

I can only Illustrate this to you if I send you attachments.

What I'd like to send to you is the following as an example of my own situation

(1) Opposing Counsel Case Conference Divorcemate Calculation (its a .pdf file)
(2) Opposing Counsel Motion Divorcemate Calculation (its a .pdf file)
(3) My Calculation (the correct one!) (again a .pdf file)

You may be wondering how I got the Divorcemate Program since it is only sold to lawyers. Lets just say I am resourceful. I knew the calculation was totally wrong but I couldn't prove it without the Divorcemate Spousal Support program.

When I got the program I was absolutely APPALLED by the incompetence. I actually copied the explanations onto a Word Document which show a total lack of understanding of financial information. I'd like to send this to you as well if I could and explain to you what they are doing wrong.

You may wonder how I know so much? I am a corporate accountant for the {Employer name deleted} who is a recognized expert in income assessment. I know exactly what they are trying to accomplish with the spousal support but trust me - they are failing miserably and in most cases totally screwing the high income earner. It will be become crystal clear to you once I explain what is happening

As a writer, you can make a difference - would I have your permission to send the three .pdf files and a Word Document to you?

Last edited by Desperate_Dad; 08-04-2012 at 03:21 PM. Reason: I put my employer's name in by accident
  #63 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2012, 02:50 PM
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Default Does anyone know this guy?

His id name on this forum is sahibjee.

If anyone knows him, tell him to contact me ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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