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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:03 PM
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Default Response to Mom2three

Dear Mom2Three:

Well aren't you a sweetheart!! How delightful to know you. I am well aware that without kids it is based on gross income and with kids it is based on INDI (Individual Net Disposable Income) Most posters do not have problems calculating spousal support when there are no kids. It is a simple calculation. 1.5% - 2% of gross income * years in marriage * difference in gross income / 12 = monthly spousal support.

However, they do have problems when children are involved. That is where the calculation becomes very complex. So my postings reflect situations with children where the calculation is complex.

Happy now?

PS - Lawyers are stupid. At least I have not found an intelligent one yet. In case you are interested, I have been in contact with Carol Rogerson (one of the authors of the guidelines)pointing out all the errors they have made and hopefully in the future the spousal support calculation will be changed based on my recommendations.
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:09 PM
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Default Response to RSZalai

The trial version lasts one month so be aware of that and things change as new tax laws come into effect. In fact as of July 1, there are changes with enhanced tax credits for low income earners. Also the HST comes into effect which may have some influence. Currently benefits such as life insurance etc are subject to RST but not GST. I am not certain at this time if the 15% tax will be applicable or not.
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:17 PM
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I suspect they will update their trial version when changes come into effect. Although ... Time will tell..
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:31 PM
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Default Schedule III Adjustments

You actually ask a very good question. I have a big issue with alot of Schedule III adjustments. For example capital gains...

They want to include capital gains as income subject to spousal support (actually its the capital gains in excess of taxable capital gains)

Let me illustrate with an example. Suppose one spouse buys out the other for ownership of the property. So lets assume she has equity in the house for 100,000 and he has 100,000 cash. He takes his cash and invests in the stock market and makes 10,000 and sells out. Her equity in the house appreciates 10,000 in the same year.

Appreciation in a house is tax free while his gain is taxable.

Should he be punished for having a taxable gain? Of course not. Yet that is what the spousal support guidelines do. Make him pay more spousal support when its not applicable.

Now to answer your question - It appears the implication is to use Line 150 since they always ask for notices of assessment.

Do I agree with this? Absolutely not. One of the guidelines I wrote for the bank that I work for is "Notices of Assessment are NOT proof of income. We need the T1 to assess the breakdown of all sources of income"

And yes we did not require a bailout because I know:

At best - people do not know how much money they make
At worst - they lie about it
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2010, 11:54 PM
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Default My Critique of the Child/Spousal Support Guidelines

Hi Everyone:

The new Spousal Support Calculator has been released by DivorceMate called Tools 2K10. I have started a blog and I plan to critique the whole thing. Needless to say, I am not impressed with it.

I will detail exactly what they say and my critique of it for every line.

My blog can be found at this link

My Critique of Spousal Support Calculator

I think it will be a good read for anyone wanting to understand financial issues with regards to child and spousal support.

I'll try to have an update every day. Comments on the blog would be appreciated and if you find it informative, please tell others about it.
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2010, 11:19 AM
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thank you for posting the link and your spreadsheet. both are extreemly helpful and simple to use.
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2010, 10:05 AM
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first of all I would like to thank Desperate_Dad for the help he gave me.
Your ex's lawyer will omit most or all of the factors from the divorcemate software and they will try to push down the maximum amount of spousal support on your throat.
Your lawyer will do the same, then he/she will tell you that they are so great lawyers that for a few thousand dollars they can manage to lower the monthly payment.
Desperate_Dad will tell you the truth. In my case it looked like this:The lawyer's version of the spousal support was low $1000, high $1700 per months. When Desparate_Dad explained me the software and we input everything correctly, the low came out $500, the high $1200. And I'm a regular salaried employee.
Thanks for the help!
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:52 PM
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Default Latest Update

Sorry have been away for awhile dealing with my nightmare of an ex. Yes I met rszalai. I was glad to help. He is just another in a long line of people getting screwed by the incompetence of Family Court.

Having done a more detailed analysis, this is what I can tell you.

(1) The program they are using (the new version is called Tools2K10) was released last month. There has been little improvement over previous versions. There are dozens of errors in this program.

(2) Where it is working properly, lawyers do not know how to use it. Lawyers seem to think its ok to pretend to be accountants and screw peoples lives. Yet they complain about people self representing themselves and bogging down the courts. Unbelievable!

Here is an example of what I am talking about. This is the exact wording in the program...

Input any pre-tax income of a corporation (ie. retained earnings) to be included in the party’s income as gross employment income (CSG, s.18). This amount will then be included as if it were gross employment income in the determination of the party's Guidelines Income and child and/or spousal support (CSG, Sch. III, s.12), and in the Support Scenarios.

Here is what I have to say to this little todbit of lawyer dementia. Retained earnings are the accumulated AFTER tax profits of a corporation over the life of the business less any dividends paid out. It should never be included as gross employment income because it has nothing to do with that. Anyone who owns a corporation and expects a lawyer to get even anywhere near the right answer is delusional.

Lawyers are a complete waste of time and are contributing to the conflict in Family Court. Just remember what LLB should stand for. The Loser Lawyer Borg where the collective intelligence is zero. (if you watch Star Trek you will get the joke!!)

By the way, if anyone wishes to have a spousal support calculation done for you correctly, just drop me a private message and I will respond to you. I won't charge you a dime. I'll derive pleasure from it destroying another stupid lawyer.
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2010, 10:36 PM
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Default How to Make a Lawyer Look Stupid

Well the trap I set for opposing counsel some 8 months ago came to fruition. I deferred a bonus making my 2009 income look less than it really is. Deferring means it is earned in one year but paid in the following year.

Opposing Counsel

Regardless of whether or not he deferred his bonus for income tax purposes, we take the position that for child support purposes, the bonus should be considered income for 2009. (Actually this is right, it should be considered income for 2009)

My Response

According to the CSG, annual income is determined using Line 150 ("Total income") of the T1 General form, adjusted in accordance with Schedule III and ss. 17, 18 and 19 of the CSG. This is commonly referred to as "Guidelines Income".
Since deferred income is not an adjustment under "Guidelines Income", the Respondent is taking the position that Opposing Counsel and the Applicant agree with the Respondent that "Guidelines Income" is completely wrong. This is the position that the Respondent has held from the start.

The Respondent proposes these other adjustments to "Guidelines Income" to attain his proper income (and then I went on to show them how you get proper income)

It's pretty easy to make lawyers look stupid. So far I haven't met one that has an intelligence level above brain dead.

I'm still available free of charge to anyone who wishes a proper spousal support calculation done. I do it for personal satisfaction as well as evidence when I seek lawyer disbarments for incompetence.

I believe I may be a short few months away of exposing these incompetent lawyers and judges to the world. I can already prove mathematically there are dozens of errors in the spousal support calculator and I can also prove "Guidelines Income" is completely wrong. Heads will roll and Family Court will never be the same after I am finished with it. Stay tuned.
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2010, 10:44 AM
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I am new to all this and am wondering when calculating spousal support with no children when the receivor is living for several years with a common-law partner if his income is added into hers to calc her gross income?
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