Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Financial Issues

Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 01:10 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 63
Newfie76 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Question Spousal Support Termination & Informing Children

Some general to the point questions:

1) Within Ontario its considered 3 years for common law; thus is it standard that when the receiving spouse becomes common law (or married for that matter), spousal support can be terminated or at least reduced?

2) As its law to pay CS/SS and all things law is "good", verses lets say evil/bad; would it not be ok to educate the children within a separation that one parent must pay the other parent more than half their salary? I would think its perfectly fine. Its no different than saying, "...if you do something bad you go to prison..."

3) How can one find out if the ex is now cohabiting with a boyfriend, thus starting the clock on common law?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 07:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,048
Berner_Faith will become famous soon enough
Default

1- Don't talk to children about your divorce or the other parent... it won't do you any good.

2- unless your separation agreement states SS stops when the ex repartners then I wouldn't count on it ending.

That being said, if children are in their late teens and starting to date, I think as a parent there is nothing wrong with informing the teens how family law works and educating them on the laws just like every other law they must follow. But to say paying CS and SS is because they did something wrong is a very poor parenting choice. No one goes into a marriage thinking of divorce. It is sad for your children that you want to put such a burden on them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:19 AM
arabian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 9,962
arabian will become famous soon enough
Default

So you were married 9 years and have 2 kids. You have been separated now for just over a year and you want to end Spousal Support. You want to "educate" your children of the evils of CS/SS.

I'd say go spend some more of your 100k annual salary on lawyers. I'm sure you will find some who will blow smoke up your ass and make you feel good about yourself. Take your kids aside and videotape them stating how they wish mom would refuse any and all money from dad. Then have your lawyer make an application in court to end child & spousal support. Go to many case conferences and try to settle out of court with your ex. Make sure your lawyer attends all the conferences and spends lots and lots of time sending letters to your ex's legal aid lawyer. If you really want to make things good, try not buying your kids Christmas or birthday presents and tell them that you can't afford these because you have to give their mother so much money.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:58 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 63
Newfie76 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Arabian: First I never said CS/SS was evil, nor that I would educate my children that it were evil. Its LAW. And Law in Canada it represents justice. If you commit a crime one must pay....thats the law! I did not write the law, I only need follow it. Secondly, I don't earn 100K per year. I make 100K per year by going to work 40 plus hours a week, however I only earn $45K per year as I pay my unemployed ex $55 per year (SS/CS combined). She also earns approx $8K tax free on top of the $55, as per Mr. TrueDoe and his Child benefit. My ex stated she never has to work again. But that's ok, as its law and our society says its fair and just. Therefore its not like talking about robbing a bank, or planning something actually evil. It the law that was created by our society. We as a people support it. right?

With respect to the remaining portion of your rant, I was not intending to hire more lawyer as my $45K a year can not justify it, nor my 10s of thousands of previous legal debt. I was hoping my ex could be civil and discuss it. I doubt it, as she just flew back from her 3 week stay in Miami. But I have hope. As a 38 year old...she has an amazing life....I wonder if I could ever live like that.

Christmas gifts? yes I bought gifts....not the high end gifts but gifts. I even bring them to the mall with a little money so they may buy their mother a xmas gift. Imagine that!

Soooooo, when my children ask where money comes from I say, "I go to work and my work rewards me for the work I did by giving me money:. Then they ask,"...But Mommy does not work, where does she get her money?" hmmmmm? should I say the tooth fairy gives it to her? I don't believe in lying to my children nor show that its ok to lie. So I told them the law says I must give money to her. I dont say it in a negative light....it is what it is.

I believe that telling the children nasty things about their mother is wrong, and I would never do that. However, if everyone is against telling the children that their mother receives money from Daddy....why is it law? What is it about the function of giving more than half your salary to your ex so wrong, one can not even tell your children about it? Is receiving money evil? you tell me?

Our society can educate our kids about sex, abortion, assisted suicide, STDs and now even Bjs in elementary school. But informing them about something that is just as real, in public law and a part of their life is so wrong? Is it because you feel deep down that it is actually wrong?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 12:45 PM
arabian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 9,962
arabian will become famous soon enough
Default

Wah wah

Hope your ex enjoys her vacations.

I don't believe for a minute that your children initiate a discussion with you about how their mother makes/does not make money. You likely prompt them, forever watching for any opportunity to disparage their mother. Your previous posts on this forum belie your true nature.

Wah wah
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 02:48 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,569
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
Some general to the point questions:

1) Within Ontario its considered 3 years for common law; thus is it standard that when the receiving spouse becomes common law (or married for that matter), spousal support can be terminated or at least reduced?
No. Unless you have a material change in circumstance clause in your agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
2) As its law to pay CS/SS and all things law is "good", verses lets say evil/bad; would it not be ok to educate the children within a separation that one parent must pay the other parent more than half their salary?
What value would this bring the children? Also, what age are the children? If they are <16 then what purpose does it serve the children? Would you talk about this with them if it was an intact family? Do you want them to feel like a burden on their parent(s)? I can see nothing good coming out of this.

If you have a sexually active teen then having the discussion about pregnancy and responsibility is a good thing to discuss. With sex comes responsibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
I would think its perfectly fine. Its no different than saying, "...if you do something bad you go to prison..."
I wouldn't relate CS to "prison". That is a bad analogy and lesson. CS is about responsibility to the child you created. The long term commitment. Something you have to consider every time you engage in sexual contact no matter how "safe" you are. But, if you are going to discuss CS and the obligations resulting from sex you should include a long discussion about STIs as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
3) How can one find out if the ex is now cohabiting with a boyfriend, thus starting the clock on common law?
You hire a private investigator. It costs about 15,000 to secure enough evidence to put forward an affidavit. Generally, people will not deny their adult relationships after separation unless the person they are with is a danger to the children. Most rational people don't need to retain a PI to find out this info... It is just common knowledge stuff that the other parent has re-partnered and that person is now residing with them and possibly the children.

Good Luck!
Tayken
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 03:04 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,569
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
If you commit a crime one must pay....
You are mixing common law and criminal law concepts. I wouldn't equate CS with the CCC. One is judged on the "balance of probabilities" and the other is judged on "beyond reasonable doubt". Two very different standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
I only earn $45K per year as I pay my unemployed ex $55 per year (SS/CS combined). She also earns approx $8K tax free on top of the $55, as per Mr. TrueDoe and his Child benefit. My ex stated she never has to work again.
Was the result of your SS and CS the result of a (a) FINAL AGREEMENT MADE ON CONSENT or a (b) finding made FINAL from the result of a TRIAL? If it is (a) then you have no real right to complain about the results. If it is (b) then, you should appeal the finding if you think it is wrong.

1. You should have sought full joint custody and equal 50-50 residence of the children. Then your CS would be offset.

2. Depending on the length of the marriage the SS agreement should have followed the guidelines for termination date or you should have negotiated a termination date.

If you didn't do #1 and #2 being upset now isn't going to do much for you other than make you more upset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
But that's ok, as its law and our society says its fair and just.
Actually, no it doesn't say that. The system allows for material changes and appeals to change an agreement and/or order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
Therefore its not like talking about robbing a bank, or planning something actually evil. It the law that was created by our society. We as a people support it. right?
You have to follow it but, you don't have to support it. You have a voice in a democracy with your vote to change anything. But, you need to find a candidate who will change it and vote for them and convince a good portion of the majority to vote for that candidate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
With respect to the remaining portion of your rant, I was not intending to hire more lawyer as my $45K a year can not justify it, nor my 10s of thousands of previous legal debt.
Then, what makes you think that changing the systemic issuses you alledge exist is going to be a cheaper and easier route than resolving the custody, access and support agreements? The mountain is very high to climb when addressing systemic issues. The hill of your family law matter is MUCH smaller... If you truly understand how SS, CS and other elements of family law work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
I was hoping my ex could be civil and discuss it. I doubt it, as she just flew back from her 3 week stay in Miami. But I have hope. As a 38 year old...she has an amazing life....I wonder if I could ever live like that.
It is Irrelevant how you or the other parent lives their life. Did you have the children with you for those three weeks? If so, it was their loss and your gain. You need to get over this kind of stuff or it will eat you up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
Soooooo, when my children ask where money comes from I say, "I go to work and my work rewards me for the work I did by giving me money:. Then they ask,"...But Mommy does not work, where does she get her money?"
Answer: You share the wealth with her because of the sacrifices that she makes in caring for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
hmmmmm? should I say the tooth fairy gives it to her? I don't believe in lying to my children nor show that its ok to lie. So I told them the law says I must give money to her. I dont say it in a negative light....it is what it is.
You don't have to lie. You simply you share the wealth as a family. You are still a family. Even after all is said and done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
However, if everyone is against telling the children that their mother receives money from Daddy....why is it law? What is it about the function of giving more than half your salary to your ex so wrong, one can not even tell your children about it? Is receiving money evil? you tell me?
Tell them you share your money with the other parent. What is wrong with that? Sharing is a good thing unless you don't want to share.

Good Luck!
Tayken
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 04:35 PM
Janus's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,342
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
So I told them the law says I must give money to her. I dont say it in a negative light....it is what it is.
Nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
Our society can educate our kids about sex, abortion, assisted suicide, STD's
Nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
and now even Bjs in elementary school.
Nothing wrong with that, if it were true. (and it is not true)

I would not be opposed to a frank discussion of sexuality in the later years of elementary school. You can't wait until children are sexually active to have such discussions, they have to take place in advance their explorations.

Of course, the idea that blowjobs are discussed in elementary school is baseless and fear-mongering. That said, the ideas of oral sex, equity, and respect for your partner's choices would certainly be a welcome addition to the curriculum in my opinion.

Quote:
But informing them about something that is just as real, in public law and a part of their life is so wrong?
I don't think it is child support that is taboo, but rather money. Our society has a weird aversion to discussing financial matters. The people on this forum have just taken the regular taboo when it comes to talking about how much you earn and have applied it to support issues. No need to get so upset about it.

There is nothing wrong with discussing support in a factual way.

That said, let's be honest, when it comes to discussing support, factual is likely not your modus operandi at all .
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 07:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,838
stripes is on a distinguished road
Default

I agree that it is important that kids learn just who is right and who is wrong when it comes to the financial outcomes of divorce. You should do what I did. I told Kid one day that it was time for her to learn the facts of life, namely that her father was a lazy deadbeat and the courts force me to give him money every month. While she covered her ears and sang "LA LA LA!!", I further educated her on the financial discrepancy between our households, explaining that I have to give up a good chunk of my salary every month to her useless father so he can take his new wife on vacations and and buy new cars. As she fled to her room shrieking "I CAN'T HEEEAR YOU!", I pursued her to explain that her father is a leech and the reason she's not getting any good Christmas presents this year is because I have to give him money he totally doesn't deserve.


/sarcasm off

I actually did what Tayken suggested - I told Kid that her father and I had an agreement that we would share all the costs related to her because we both love her and want to take care of her. Because I make a little more than her father, I send him a little extra money every month. If things changed and he earned more than me, he would send me a little extra.

That's all kids need to know - Mom and Dad both love you and everything is okay. Parents who think their kids "deserve" to know all the financial facts are usually deluding themselves - that kind of discussion is all about making the ex look bad in the eyes of the kid, no matter how you dress it up with justifications.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 63
Newfie76 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
- that kind of discussion is all about making the ex look bad in the eyes of the kid, no matter how you dress it up with justifications.
Really? But why is it bad? I understand where you are coming from....don't make the ex spouse look bad in the eyes of the children...(I dont talk about my ex with the kids)....So does society feel that its ok to pay the money, while keeping it in the closet, under the rug, behind closed doors? What are we doing SOOOOO BAD that we should keep it from our own children?....then why do we do it? I can only imagine keeping nasty things from my kids....ex. the abuse their mother gave me when we were married.

When I was 7 years old...I remember my father sitting me down to start showing me where money comes from and where it goes....years later that lead into how to run a business. Today I start the same conversation with my kids...and they find it odd as they recognize that the old statement of "hard Work" brings you "honest pay", does not compute. "Why does mommy not work? Where does she get her money? When teaching kids about the fruits of hard work....support payments don't equate.

Our system is broken....this is NOT equality. If it were equality...my ex would be required to work...

A system that allows a women to mentally, physically and emotionally abuse her spouse for years...a system that would not support me when I reported the abuse...a system that voids a marriage "contract" with no fault divorce but locks in the financial aspect for life regardless of the reason for divorce....is a broken system. I am forced to pay my abusive ex until I die...while she lives the good life.

I want to personally thank every red blooded Canadian who supports this system! Thank You.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spousal Support Review FightingForFamily Financial Issues 11 08-27-2013 02:54 PM
Trying to Find a Better Way (Child support) SingingDad Financial Issues 23 06-20-2013 01:30 AM
Spousal Support Variance - No children PeCho Financial Issues 5 10-28-2011 08:27 PM
Spousal Support NOT Wanted, Can She Sue For it After??? DanTess Financial Issues 12 03-31-2011 11:12 PM
Property Division and support divot Financial Issues 1 11-18-2005 08:50 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:04 PM.