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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serene View Post
In Canada it is illegal to pay for gametes - so no financial compensation is allowed.

Serene - it's pretty obvious this whole insemination was kept "off the books". They likely didn't want to pay the medical fees involved in doing it the legal way, so they found a cheap way to get the job done.

The donor was literally giving up part of himself and he didnt' think to have a contract checked by a lawyer? Yeah, this is the consquence of that. Unfortunate maybe. Preventable? Entirely.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dinkyface View Post
So, sperm donor is liable for child support BUT a dad who undergoes invitro fertilization with his partner (and hence is 'technically' a sperm donor) DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PARENT?

Actor Jason Patric is fighting to gain access with his son ... apparently the 'intent to parent' forms he signed didn't use quite the right words.

Sick.
No doubt the laws surrounding IVF need to change - should a surrogate be used, should a sperm donor be used, etc. -- often times following birth a formal adoption still needs to be completed in order to effectively confirm legal guardianship/parental authority of the child. It's crazy.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:31 AM
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Mess - I think if the biomother uses an adoption agency, she's off the hook. But even that might change, aren't the adoption laws in the midst of being changed as well? No privacy for the bio parent?
I'm not fully conversant in ongoing changes, but to be frank, I don't always agree with the government.

IMHO, a donation of sperm or egg is equivalent to an adoption. The end result should be an individual/family that is independant of the donor.

I cannot see a discrimination where one is obligated and the other is not.

This needs to be clearly established in legislation because common law is mixed.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:40 AM
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IMHO, a donation of sperm or egg is equivalent to an adoption. The end result should be an individual/family that is independant of the donor.
I agree. The bottom line is what was the intent here? The guy and this couple clearly skirted the system and signed the wrong forms but there's no doubt that he was making a donation and thought that's all he was doing at the time.

What's interesting is that the mother tried to lie and suggest she didn't know who the donor was. I don't think she was too keen on the state suing this guy for CS either.

Quote:
No doubt the laws surrounding IVF need to change - should a surrogate be used, should a sperm donor be used, etc. -- often times following birth a formal adoption still needs to be completed in order to effectively confirm legal guardianship/parental authority of the child. It's crazy.
Its even worse in the U.S. because the laws vary from state to state. I can never understand how Americans can keep up with the scale of that much variation. I'm glad Canada has less provinces than the U.S. has states...makes things a bit easier.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
I agree. The bottom line is what was the intent here? The guy and this couple clearly skirted the system and signed the wrong forms but there's no doubt that he was making a donation and thought that's all he was doing at the time.

What's interesting is that the mother tried to lie and suggest she didn't know who the donor was. I don't think she was too keen on the state suing this guy for CS either.



Its even worse in the U.S. because the laws vary from state to state. I can never understand how Americans can keep up with the scale of that much variation. I'm glad Canada has less provinces than the U.S. has states...makes things a bit easier.
It's only a donation if it was truly "donated". I still can't believe that some arbitrary person would hand over enough sperm to populate a small village and not do their due diligence (if his motive was truly altruistic). There had to have been a monetary reason behind it. He was motivated by something.

It's like signing your separation agreement without ILA.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:15 PM
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It's only a donation if it was truly "donated". I still can't believe that some arbitrary person would hand over enough sperm to populate a small village and not do their due diligence (if his motive was truly altruistic). There had to have been a monetary reason behind it. He was motivated by something.

It's like signing your separation agreement without ILA.
A donation is a donation.

We do not analyse the motives of someone who donates to a charity, church, non-profit, political party, etc. We simply recognize that something was donated, be it blankets, money, sperm, canned goods, or otherwise.

If we treat one donation as being "motivated", then we have to treat all.

So if someone donates a blanket to a disaster, are they responsible if the save the life of some criminal?

You want law. This is law. You cannot pick and choose. A donation is a donation. The person who donates has their own motives, whether it is religion, or ethics, or self-agrandisment.

If you want to rewrite the law to separate donation according to motive, then you need to approach your member of parliament.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
A donation is a donation.

We do not analyse the motives of someone who donates to a charity, church, non-profit, political party, etc. We simply recognize that something was donated, be it blankets, money, sperm, canned goods, or otherwise.

If we treat one donation as being "motivated", then we have to treat all.

So if someone donates a blanket to a disaster, are they responsible if the save the life of some criminal?

You want law. This is law. You cannot pick and choose. A donation is a donation. The person who donates has their own motives, whether it is religion, or ethics, or self-agrandisment.

If you want to rewrite the law to separate donation according to motive, then you need to approach your member of parliament.
My point Mess is that was he paid for it? If he was paid, it isn't a donation is it?
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:46 PM
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Former partners 'forever grateful' to Topeka sperm donor | CJOnline.com

This article provides more background.

The "donor" was paid. They posted the craigslist ad because their family doctor refused to sign off stating that they were "capable of raising a child" as was required for the official route.

So, Daddy thought he could earn a quick buck for helping the parent skirt the legalities of doing it the right way.

Last edited by MS Mom; 01-24-2014 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:01 PM
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Its still compelling to consider that there might be a double standard here.

Another example, a woman can get paid for surrogacy. And if the woman changes her mind at the end and decides to not give the baby up for adoption, she can keep it without having to return those fees. She can then sue the surrogate sperm donor for CS (assuming she used the sperm of the male of the paying couple). I remember reading about a case like this a while back in the U.S.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:34 PM
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Actually, I don't think a woman can be paid for surrogacy in Canada. I think they can be reimbursed costs for things like maternity clothes, missed work, but technically not be paid for their surrogacy. I could be wrong.

What is interesting is that to use donor sperm here in Canada you do not need to go through being qualified to raise a child. Some fertility centres insist that you see a psych to deal with the emotional aspects of raising a donor baby but they don't ascertain if you are fit to have a family. That in itself is bizarre given you do need a home assessment to adopt a child.

I think the bigger issue is this: Whether the sperm was donated or paid for or not, the issue is that it is the right of the child to have the CS, at least as far as the legal ruling in this particular case has established.

There are some distinctions between donor and adopted babies that have made headlines and were in the supreme court of Canada. Not sure if they have been resolved as of yet but I suspect so. A donor baby (now an adult) when to court because they wanted to know who their donor sperm father was. This child claimed it was her right to know. I believe the lower courts deemed it wasn't her right as the father's donated their sperm based on their anonymous donation. But the child went on to say that adopted babies get to unseal their records and get info on their bio parents and donor babies should have the same rights. Last I heard it was at the Supreme Court. I believe one of their arguments was that the donor babies were being discriminated against given they didn't have the same rights as adopted babies.
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