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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2016, 12:07 AM
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Default Seeking Entitlement to costs

Hello ODF community.

I won on my first Motion and I will be requesting the OP to pay for my legal costs. I have a question related on the process;

Do we seek costs only for the length of this motion? (from November 2015 to now)

or we seek costs for all items that were brought before the judge at this motion? (from Summer/Spring 2015 t'il now).

Also, do we include all the offers we have made up to the OP until now?

Is there an example somewhere I could rely to?

Thank you in advance for your help.
M7
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia007 View Post
I won on my first Motion and I will be requesting the OP to pay for my legal costs.
I wouldn't say you "won". Technically the court ordered in your favor based on your evidence and what you asked the court to order.

I have a theory that if you think of custody and access and trials as "win/lose" the only winners are the lawyers (money) and the losers are the children (and parents) who are now broke.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia007 View Post
I have a question related on the process;

Do we seek costs only for the length of this motion? (from November 2015 to now)
You have a lawyer correct? If so your lawyer will know what you reasonably can ask for costs on.

- Reasonable time spent preparing for the motion.
- Time spent for hearing the motion.

Depending on the order and any offers to settle you made prior it may incorporate the time for preparing and serving these offers. Especially if they are similar to or better than what the court ordered.

Costs are all based on how reasonable the parties conducted themselves really. If you asked for what was reasonable and the other party didn't settle and demonstrate they were reasonable then they will pay costs. In proportion to how reasonable they were.

Remember, what you consider "reasonable" is not necessarily what the court considers to be "reasonable". So goes with "blameworth" conduct. You may be outraged and expect all your money back but, the court doesn't balance "emotion" when balancing "probabilities" and "reasonableness" generally.

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Originally Posted by mafia007 View Post
or we seek costs for all items that were brought before the judge at this motion? (from Summer/Spring 2015 t'il now).
See above. It isn't about "time" it is a link between what you offered and asked to be ordered against the time spent. The general banter between you and the other lawyer generally isn't covered in the costs.

Don't expect a windfall in costs.

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Originally Posted by mafia007 View Post
Also, do we include all the offers we have made up to the OP until now?

Is there an example somewhere I could rely to?

Thank you in advance for your help.
M7
Yes, you would include any official offers to settle that were relevant to the order that was made. RELEVANT and were ORDERED. Don't ask for costs for something that wasn't part of the motion.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:29 PM
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Do they consider ability to pay when making cost awards? In Quebec, there are 2 optiosn the rich guy pays everybody legal fees or everybody pays their own. Other than cases of abuse of process the the poor person never pays any fees except their own..... I wish we had costs like this in Quebec
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Old 06-13-2016, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
I wouldn't say you "won". Technically the court ordered in your favor based on your evidence and what you asked the court to order.

I have a theory that if you think of custody and access and trials as "win/lose" the only winners are the lawyers (money) and the losers are the children (and parents) who are now broke.




You have a lawyer correct? If so your lawyer will know what you reasonably can ask for costs on.

- Reasonable time spent preparing for the motion.
- Time spent for hearing the motion.

Depending on the order and any offers to settle you made prior it may incorporate the time for preparing and serving these offers. Especially if they are similar to or better than what the court ordered.

Costs are all based on how reasonable the parties conducted themselves really. If you asked for what was reasonable and the other party didn't settle and demonstrate they were reasonable then they will pay costs. In proportion to how reasonable they were.

Remember, what you consider "reasonable" is not necessarily what the court considers to be "reasonable". So goes with "blameworth" conduct. You may be outraged and expect all your money back but, the court doesn't balance "emotion" when balancing "probabilities" and "reasonableness" generally.



See above. It isn't about "time" it is a link between what you offered and asked to be ordered against the time spent. The general banter between you and the other lawyer generally isn't covered in the costs.

Don't expect a windfall in costs.



Yes, you would include any official offers to settle that were relevant to the order that was made. RELEVANT and were ORDERED. Don't ask for costs for something that wasn't part of the motion.

Good Luck!
Tayken
Thank you Tayken,

As I was reading your response, I received an email from my lawyer on this matter. What a coincidence!

She confirmed it was all related to the motion, the time spend for preparation, drafting, offers, emails, calls, all related disbursements that occurs from last February when we first started to work on it. This motion cost a lot more as it was postponed 3 times. First time by us as my criminal case was to get dismissed and the two others by the OP, because she was sick (false; she changed lawyer) and then his lawyer had another motion in civil rights (false; he wasn't prepared and didn't have the original files that were and are still with the other STBX Lawyer for unpaid fees.)

First step is to ask the OP if they are willing to make an offer on the amount we are claiming and if rejected, we forward our submission to the judge. Normally, it's 20% to 50% of the items we succeeded but could be zero in case the OP is in bad financial disposure or could cause harm in her situation. Especially (but not always as they are still accountable for bad faith) when OP is on Legal Aid. (See costs award in WorkingDad's thread as reference).

All other fees and offers that were reasonably done in the past but are not pertaining to this motion, is to be kept for costs after the final trial.
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Old 06-13-2016, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Do they consider ability to pay when making cost awards? In Quebec, there are 2 optiosn the rich guy pays everybody legal fees or everybody pays their own. Other than cases of abuse of process the the poor person never pays any fees except their own..... I wish we had costs like this in Quebec
My gf got divorced on the Quebec side and I know what you mean. She spend enormous time in Court for stupidities and BS because her ex was on Legal Aid. It kept like this from 2006 to 2011 until the LA funds hits zero and the judge told her ex "Enough of this crap and provide me with a good reason for not sending you to jail".

Apparently, he provided a good reason and was not send to jail.

She then moved on the Ontario side... and we met last year. Going through my divorce, she made the same remarks as you did. Costs should be imputed to the most bad litigant.
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:31 PM
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Fair to say, proceed with caution here...with your divorce still ongoing and everything still fresh in both your matters. You don't want to rush into anything

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia007 View Post
My gf got divorced on the Quebec side and I know what you mean. She spend enormous time in Court for stupidities and BS because her ex was on Legal Aid. It kept like this from 2006 to 2011 until the LA funds hits zero and the judge told her ex "Enough of this crap and provide me with a good reason for not sending you to jail".

Apparently, he provided a good reason and was not send to jail.

She then moved on the Ontario side... and we met last year. Going through my divorce, she made the same remarks as you did. Costs should be imputed to the most bad litigant.
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Old 06-14-2016, 08:18 PM
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Fair to say, proceed with caution here...with your divorce still ongoing and everything still fresh in both your matters. You don't want to rush into anything
A lot of people will say or think that I rushed myself into a new relationship. First, I didn't ran for it, it just happened.

At least I can say I've met my new gf when my marriage was over. STBX on her end had met several "someone" during the marriage.

But who's talking about rushing our self in a new relationship? When a marriage ends because of unfaithfulness, when a person committed adultery , you will not say she/he ran quickly into another relationship ?

Really, I'm not rushing into anything. I'm just moving on. I need to show my children that life can still be as joyful after the brake up.
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Old 06-15-2016, 10:53 AM
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Well...perhaps "rush" was the wrong word. However, it's easy to get swept away with 'new lust / love', neglecting all lessons learned if indeed there is a mental note of all that was wrong first time around.

You wouldn't want to be blindsided is the point here. Additionally, some people have ulterior motives usually.

Good luck with the new one! I am currently just dating here and there 4yrs after my official divorce, and like the fact I have my space as well as the companion thing for getaways, dinner, movies, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia007 View Post
A lot of people will say or think that I rushed myself into a new relationship. First, I didn't ran for it, it just happened.

At least I can say I've met my new gf when my marriage was over. STBX on her end had met several "someone" during the marriage.

But who's talking about rushing our self in a new relationship? When a marriage ends because of unfaithfulness, when a person committed adultery , you will not say she/he ran quickly into another relationship ?

Really, I'm not rushing into anything. I'm just moving on. I need to show my children that life can still be as joyful after the brake up.
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Old 06-15-2016, 11:53 AM
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More than what hopefull is saying is that a new partner can cause the other party in the mater to become irrational. Even if they were the ones who left the relationship. The fear of being replaced as a parent is a strong one. It leads litigants to do stupid things and bring forward even stupider motions. Like a contempt motion when your new partner watches the children and not a daycare provider.
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Old 06-15-2016, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
. Like a contempt motion when your new partner watches the children and not a daycare provider.
I would encourage you to exploit these stupidities, you didn't get a free pass for the criminal accusation. No free passes for the ex...
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