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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 06-07-2014, 09:49 AM
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Default Section 7 and Final Court Order

Hi all. Long-time lurker with a few posts; wonderful site with a wealth of information!

My ex and I have a final court order that states I have sole custody and if we are unable to agree on Section 7 expenses, I have "final decision making authority" (exact wording). Our boys (twins age 5) are not registered in everything under the sun; usually only swimming in the fall/winter and soccer in the summer (the judge agreed that these were indeed S7 expenses). Dad always refuses to pay his portion and we usually end up in front of a judge in order to collect what is owed.

Dad has always been aware that they boys want to play hockey and that when the time came, I would be registering them. Last week, I discovered hockey registration for new players was sooner than I thought it would be and immediately informed Dad of my intention to register the boys and provided him with links to the Association's website for him to look at the information himself. As usual, he has refused to agree, even after I suggested he could split the repayment in two - half 30 days after my sending him the receipt and then half 30 days after that. I also suggested that hockey equipment be purchased periodically over the summer to help to budget for and limit the amount of money being spent at one time to outfit them. His answer is still no. Our incomes are such that he is responsible for 60% of expenses and he pays full table child support

My question is -- this is a final court order providing me with final decision making authority and as mentioned, I do not register our boys for everything under the sun. This is the first major S7 expense since receiving the final court order. If we end up in court again regarding repayment, how concrete is our final court order? Can he simply say "No"?

The boys have wanted to play hockey for a long time; one of the little guys insists he's going to be a goalie (Mom is cringing on that one--even renting goalie equipment is outrageously expensive!). They are definitely rink rats; they have two older brothers who play(ed) hockey. One is still playing and the boys absolutely love going to watch him. I guess the point of this paragraph is to say that they have been exposed to the hockey culture and I am not just registering them out of the blue; this is something they have always wanted to do.

And for the record, I have acknowledged that it is his decision if he doesn't want to take them to hockey during his parenting time

Thanks for your help!
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:24 PM
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From my understanding, you have final decision making but I doubt you can make him pay. If it isn't a status quo extra curricular activity I don't see how you can make him pay for it.

Final Decision making only allows you to decide, not to force payment on him.

Im sure other members will chime in on this.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:09 PM
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I was under the impression from the numerous other posts here arguing over hockey, that house league hockey wasn't particularly an "extraordinary" s7 expense (based on the respective incomes and table cs being paid, of course).
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:25 PM
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at the kids ages are you buying new equipment or used? Is there some sort of hockey equipment swap where you can get gently used equipment for the kids?

If you offered to split the repayment in half with the ex the you must of been able to pay for it all yourself. I wonder if a judge would make him pay if this wasn't a sport the kids were involved with before? If I was you I would make sure I could afford it on my own in case Dad doesn't come through or the judge decides that this is one he doesn't have to pay.
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Old 06-08-2014, 03:35 PM
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House league hockey is not an S.7 expense. Your likelihood to succeed on collecting the funds is very low.

You can't demand the other parent take the children and 99% of house league hockey programs will accommodate this situation where one parent doesn't take the child/ren to games/practices on their time.

My recommendation would be to pay for the hockey and equipment. Take the children when they are with you. Enjoy the experience and hopefully the children will talk so positively about it the other parent will get involved... Because that is what a good parent would do when their child shows a genuine interest in something.

Or even better. The other parent just asks you to take the children (while they are with you) to their hockey games and practices and you get to spend even more time with the children.

Maximizing your time with the children and at activities they enjoy only makes for a positive experience for the children and is truly in their best interests. If the other parent isn't interested in doing that... That is their prerogative but, it doesn't reflect well on them and children WILL remember going to hockey with you when they get older and look back on the good memories of their childhood.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Last edited by Tayken; 06-08-2014 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:59 PM
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House league hockey typically works out to about $80 a month over the year and that includes used equipment and the costs to register. I would think that this would indeed NOT be a S7 expense in my personal opinion.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:00 PM
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Can you afford to pay for them yourself. Maybe request Christmas/ birthday present be hockey equipment. If you are indeed struggling there are lots of programs out there which offer assistance so children can play sports. We know my daughters ex will never agree to,any sports as its not his thing and certainly he does not want to contribute, so she has started putting a little aside each month to cover the registration. He is only 2 1/2 so,she has some time. Lots of equipment out there, just ask around.m twins are double the cost of,everything, as you well know. Maybe talk with the organizers and see if you can pay off the registration over several months. I know,Girl guides and .scouts allow post dated payments over 3 or 4 months. Imhope,they get to play. Its the greatest game.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:49 PM
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I was curious, How does paying section 7 really work. How do you calculate at the time of purchase how to figure out 50/50 or proportionate to extra curricular activities for example:

Swimming is $730 per yr and Government credit is $500.

What is my obligation relative to swimming is it before or after credit?
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:47 PM
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Well the government credit is not $500 you can claim up to $500 tax credit in activity fees, which I believe represents about $ 75 in tax relief, based on a medium level income. I use a Tax program. So I put everything in t4 s etc. And then I add in the daycare. See what the tax benefit is. Then I put in the activity claim,amd see how that effects the bottom line.

I believe there are 2 ways you can work it. Work out an agreed amount based on tax benefit expect the claiming party expects to receive and then split the balance as per agreement. Or, you can pay the proportionate amount agreed upon and then once the claiming party does their income tax work out how much tax refund they received from the section 7 expenses claimed they can reimburse the other party. But that takes co operation and that is not always forthcoming.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:10 AM
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I have just had an arbitrated ruling that states that I am required to pay 400.00/mth on top of Table CS for S7 expenses. My ex will pay the first 1800.00 out of CS - and then my monies get used in % basis.
I argued that the activities my kids (s11,d8)were involved in (house league hockey/soccer, etc) were not S7 as defined as "extraordinary". That said the decision was that while each was not S7 on their own - their combination were deemed S7.
It is such a grey area and there is case law supporting both sides.
In this instance - it went the way of my ex. I have no say in what they are put in - just give the money. There is some reconciling that has to be done and if the money isn't used - I get some back.
All this to say - it will depend on the judge you have.
Good luck
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