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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 05-27-2011, 11:07 PM
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Hi all,

Relatively calm considering more nonsense afoot. So need some opinions on this one please.

For those that don't know that background... here is is (in part).

My fiancee regularly paid substantial CS (12XX) and Daycare. occasionally the day care a bit late (like a day or a week - waiting for payday).

His ex would freak out if one day late.


(BTW: no receipts ever given to us and therefore can't claim any of the daycare tax back).

His ex went to FRO. I still don't why FRO got involved as there is no court order or notarized separation agreement just a VERY BAD self made separation agreement that doesn't clearly say anything useful. But the letter arrived and they recommended strongly voluntary participation. My fiancee not wanting to get in trouble agreed.

Problem is with FRO involved now he can't honour his full child support as the only dollar figure is $1,000 which is in reference to an amount he has to pay regardless of what his income is. (yes, you read that right - worlds stupidest agreement that was signed without legal rep/ without financial disclosure, and under duress) but anyways, this is $4XXless than his new line 150. But he is not allowed to pay her direct the remainder as he will get fined for doing so. All child support has to go through FRO even if it's the wrong amount.

Then we come to the Daycare dilemma. After weeks of back and forth
with Lawyers and FRO trying to determine if he can pay the daycare provider for his portion of the daycare or if he can pay his ex without fear of a fine for this - we finally are given the green light to make a payment to either. So we draft up a contract of payment and the Daycare provider signs it and takes the check. We inform the ex she is now paid in advance and has a credit with the daycare provider. Furious because she is not in control she scares the crap out of the provider or something as the next time we collect the children up the check is handed back !!!

So to sum it up we went from being caught up in day care to arrears again because they refused payment. We don't want to have to deal with the ex because as said before she regularly makes our lives a living hell.

Am I right in thinking we have a legal right to pay the daycare directly? And if they refuse payment???

Case conference in July... What will a judge make of this? Since we are already involved with FRO can we wait til an order is made to pay the arrears?

Last edited by karmaseeker; 05-27-2011 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karmaseeker View Post
Hi all,

Relatively calm considering more nonsense afoot. So need some opinions on this one please.

For those that don't know that background... here is is (in part).

My fiancee regularly paid substantial CS (12XX) and Daycare. occasionally the day care a bit late (like a day or a week - waiting for payday).

His ex would freak out if one day late.


(BTW: no receipts ever given to us and therefore can't claim any of the daycare tax back).

His ex went to FRO. I still don't why FRO got involved as there is no court order or notarized separation agreement just a VERY BAD self made separation agreement that doesn't clearly say anything useful. But the letter arrived and they recommended strongly voluntary participation. My fiancee not wanting to get in trouble agreed.

Problem is with FRO involved now he can't honour his full child support as the only dollar figure is $1,000 which is in reference to an amount he has to pay regardless of what his income is. (yes, you read that right - worlds stupidest agreement that was signed without legal rep/ without financial disclosure, and under duress) but anyways, this is $4XXless than his new line 150. But he is not allowed to pay her direct the remainder as he will get fined for doing so. All child support has to go through FRO even if it's the wrong amount.

Then we come to the Daycare dilemma. After weeks of back and forth
with Lawyers and FRO trying to determine if he can pay the daycare provider for his portion of the daycare or if he can pay his ex without fear of a fine for this - we finally are given the green light to make a payment to either. So we draft up a contract of payment and the Daycare provider signs it and takes the check. We inform the ex she is now paid in advance and has a credit with the daycare provider. Furious because she is not in control she scares the crap out of the provider or something as the next time we collect the children up the check is handed back !!!

So to sum it up we went from being caught up in day care to arrears again because they refused payment. We don't want to have to deal with the ex because as said before she regularly makes our lives a living hell.

Am I right in thinking we have a legal right to pay the daycare directly? And if they refuse payment???

Case conference in July... What will a judge make of this? Since we are already involved with FRO can we wait til an order is made to pay the arrears?
I don't know why not! In fact my accountant said np claiming it on my taxes and as tax returns are usually sent electronically no receipts are sent. If there is any ? 's I would point out that payment has been made for daycare the dollar amount and who it was paid to.
What arguement would be made here? So you pay ex money for daycare so she can "pay it" then claim it on her taxes? No bloody way! Even when my ex and i were paying our shares the provider would issue her a receipt for her and one for me.

Anyway if that's not possible my accountant said it didn't matter as the money i was claiming for daycare was legit, if there was any wrong doing....under the table stuff then that's their problem.

Daycare I was paying was approx 4000-5000.00 a year..not chump change and provided a significant tax rebate, there was no way in hell I was allowing my ex to claim another 4k on her taxes of my money...she is already getting too much of it that is supposed to be for the children...I already bought her a new 50k suv, I wasn't about to send her to Cuba again, put the kids with a new a sitter for a week ( just one example) not tell me where my children are, then hand me a bill for half the daycare costs...oh of which the criminal judge said she didn't need to provide receipts....pay her! Actually she had approx 10k in hand written payments...by her no less...I had to pay half of that too! Nope right against my taxes.
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:22 AM
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"oh of which the criminal judge said she didn't need to provide receipts....pay her! Actually she had approx 10k in hand written payments...by her no less...I had to pay half of that too! Nope right against my taxes."

Sorry I am confused here. What are you telling us to do?
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karmaseeker View Post
"oh of which the criminal judge said she didn't need to provide receipts....pay her! Actually she had approx 10k in hand written payments...by her no less...I had to pay half of that too! Nope right against my taxes."

Sorry I am confused here. What are you telling us to do?
You said because you have no receipt you can not claim. My accountant said no problem that i can claim and did claim. If revenue Canada asks tell them you're paying the daycare...give them their name and how much you paid. Its bs that you're expected to pay the ex daycare and the what...she's allowed to claim her payment as well as yours?

If you make Payment to ex for daycare then claim that payment to her on your taxes if the daycare won't accept your payment directly....I don't understand why the daycare won't except your money
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Old 05-28-2011, 06:11 AM
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If you make Payment to ex for daycare then claim that payment to her on your taxes if the daycare won't accept your payment directly
And see where that gets you if/when the CRA reviews your claim.
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:49 AM
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And see where that gets you if/when the CRA reviews your claim.

So then how is she claiming this? I double checked her financials and there it is.

Is this tax fraud?
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:27 PM
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So then how is she claiming this? I double checked her financials and there it is.

Is this tax fraud?
ha...its only fraud when dad is involved. I am sure there will be different opinions. My accountant said claim it. You've paid the daycare if they refuse to give you a receipt then if you're asked tell them. Give the daycare info.

If mom is claiming expenses that she is not entitled to then that's her problem.

I would not accept the cheque back...I would continue to pay the daycare. if they don't cash your check then who cares? you've paid and its up to them to cash it. Don't pay mom...let her take you to court over it. What's her defence? I want to pay so I can claim the tax benefit on 100% of the daycare expense?? Good luck on that one. I wouldn't give that one up without a fight. Just keep giving the cheques do not except them back...let it fall to the ground....this is just greed greed and more greed....controll...controll and more controll.

Don't threaten her with calling revenue Canada....just do it. If she is claiming something she is not paying.

It makes no sence to me whatsoever that if you're paying half or more of daycare expenses why you can not claim your portion and my accountant agreed.

The court thing I was talking about is when she pulled the children out and got in home house keeper/ babysitter...and there was no receipts...only her handwritten accounts of what she paid...which according to my lawyer was a no, no! but as I said I had a criminal judge and he (the judge) said...no receipts...no problem....dad you pay half of what she says...totally f'd....but that's how its all set up...they're betting dad won't be able or afford to appeal because of all the money/ payments, lawyer bills dad has to make. Its just like insurance co. They deny your claim...they make it so tough and so expensive and try and break you...then most of us are forced to accept the outcome. The family law system is no different for dads. Yes you get the odd father that's had some luck...but the vast majority of us get the shaft...and we'll be happy to get whatever crumbs are thrown to us.
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:37 PM
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The goal here isn't to claim taxes. The goal is to set up a system wherein we need to deal with the ex as little as possible. She is claiming something that is under the table and shouldn't be - I hope she gets caught but no matter what unscrupulous, cruel, or even fraudulent behaviour she does - she always seems to get away with it.

We are just sick of the games and want to be able to pay what we have to (but in this case be protected by FRO).

It seems ridiculous that a daycare provider can't figure out basic math and work the numbers to reflect the credit and owing. It's not rocket science. If we can't pay how works best for us - then I feel like why the hell should we pay at all. Not like there is a court order, so in my logic I would be happy if someone paid for a service in advance for me for the month. But then, I'm not a vindictive !@#$%^& who just wants to control every aspect of everything.


(little venting here) LOL
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:54 PM
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If you are paying for section 7 child support that includes child care, then they are supposed to be calculated on an after tax basis. The amounts are calculated pro rata to each parent's income and then the tax relief is factored in to the amount being paid. So in effect when you are paying for child care as part of CS then you are already getting the tax relief.

LF is wrong when he says claim on your tax return if it is being paid as section 7 expenses. Period.

If you deducted that amount on your tax return and the CRA reviewed it, it would be denied. Period.

If you deducted that amount and the CRA didn't review it, well you got away with one. Period.
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:22 PM
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None of this is figured out through a court order. This is an additional payment agreed upon between two people with no calculations after tax.

This is a guy paying half (subtract transportation expense) as agreed through email because his ex wife told him too. Period. FRO can't handle it for that reason. Nothing official. No receipts. Provider is under the table at home babysitter - so no one should be claiming it.

She IS claiming it - her bad.

He wants to pay his portion to daycare provider to minimize his headaches. End of.

FRO won't take the money.
Sitter won't take the money.

It's just dumb. Rogers or a gas bill doesn't care where they get the money from as long as they get the money.

Why should he pay her direct when she's already taken him to FRO and there hands are tied because she won't give them receipts or proof of payment?
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