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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 08-01-2012, 04:25 AM
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Net worth
I have 2 questions I’m trying to confirm regarding Net Worth I’m living in the Matrimonial Home and this is where I want to be. The home and mortgage was put in her name when we bought because she has a good job. She left 4.5 yrs ago and I don’t want to loose this home so I’ve been paying everything since. I have read that because she is on title the mortgage and house appraisal has to be reported in her Net worth. I on the other hand do not claim any part of the house in my Net worth. I would like to know if I understand this correctly. I was self-employed and when the health problems started I had to stop work and couldn’t finish the jobs that I had. This left me with a lot of debt. The debt is so high the ex’s lawyer wants to disallow ¾ of it. Is this a common practice in settling property division?
I'm looking at keeping the home as part of the equalization payment from the ex who will be paying me SS.



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Old 08-01-2012, 09:03 AM
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There will likely be a date established as the separation date. The value of the house should be established as of the date she no longer contributed.

You will likely be required to pay portion in "occupational rent", but others are better explaining this than I.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Full_Plate View Post
Net worth
I have 2 questions I’m trying to confirm regarding Net Worth I’m living in the Matrimonial Home and this is where I want to be. The home and mortgage was put in her name when we bought because she has a good job. She left 4.5 yrs ago and I don’t want to loose this home so I’ve been paying everything since. I have read that because she is on title the mortgage and house appraisal has to be reported in her Net worth. I on the other hand do not claim any part of the house in my Net worth. I would like to know if I understand this correctly. I was self-employed and when the health problems started I had to stop work and couldn’t finish the jobs that I had. This left me with a lot of debt. The debt is so high the ex’s lawyer wants to disallow ¾ of it. Is this a common practice in settling property division?
I'm looking at keeping the home as part of the equalization payment from the ex who will be paying me SS.
Were you married, or common-law? If you were married, you each put half the house and half the mortgage on your financial disclosure. If you were common-law, it goes fully on her side if it's solely in her name.

As I understand things, yes, she can claim 4.5 years of occupational rent from you to her for living in her house, but you paid her mortgage so you'd subtract that.

As for debt, I'm not sure I understand what you mean that the ex's lawyer doesn't want to count 3/4 of it. I think we need more details here. Is this debt that you incurred post-separation? It doesn't count at all towards equalization - you keep it all. If it happened before separation, is the lawyer trying to say 1/4 of it goes on your ex's side and 3/4 goes on yours? That might look unfair on the surface and you could fight it, but if it was incurred solely because of your actions and the ex didn't benefit, then dividing it that way might be the ethical thing to do. The lawyer can say to disallow most of it, but you still have to repay it so it should be included in there somewhere.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:20 AM
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You will likely be required to pay portion in "occupational rent", but others are better explaining this than I.
A side point, if s/he is paying the costs of the house (mortgage, utilities, maintenance) this is often balanced against occupational rent to be a wash.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:58 AM
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A side point, if s/he is paying the costs of the house (mortgage, utilities, maintenance) this is often balanced against occupational rent to be a wash.
Please do remind the other lawyers you work with of this when you are at conferences and other get togethers. The "threat" of "occupational rent" is always used, rarely ever ordered and does nothing but to create conflict where none should exist.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:09 PM
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Please do remind the other lawyers you work with of this when you are at conferences and other get togethers. The "threat" of "occupational rent" is always used, rarely ever ordered and does nothing but to create conflict where none should exist.
I think this is valid point when there are bigger issues, but it has been burning a bigger hole in my backside every month that goes by when there is no maintenance, no mortgage but there is the taxes at $300 with her take home of more than $3,000. Even with the utilities she pays a song where in comparison without SS my disability doesn't even cover the cost of my room. It does bug the heck out of me that not only does she get to come home and sit on the couch, her costs to live are actually $350 less than mine and I am the one who doesn't have the paycheck.....
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:57 PM
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It does bug the heck out of me that not only does she get to come home and sit on the couch, her costs to live are actually $350 less than mine and I am the one who doesn't have the paycheck.....
She's working...so although she may be sitting on the couch, she's also out there earning a living. Its not her fault that you aren't earning one also. I assume she also has the expense of having children living with her....so she's also managing that.

Also more importantly, the time it takes to prove entitlement and get a temporary order for SS is determined by the amount of time it takes to get an initial filing. After the CC, you have to file a motion, get an order from the court, send paperwork to FRO and then wait for them to catch up with your file. This process takes a long time...so your immense delay on your initial filing caused your problem...not your ex. The wait time is the same for everyone going through the process. Its extremely slow.

In addition, you should count yourself very lucky. There are many people who have to wait for this not only for themselves but have to manage children with zero help at all...not disability or anything else.

If you're going through a divorce...you can't rely on an ex-spouse to take care of you. That's often one of the more common reasons that people want out of marriages...because they don't want grown dependents who are financial drains. When starting a divorce, you have to realize that financially you're probably on your own....at least for approximately the first year after initial filing.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
She's working...so although she may be sitting on the couch, she's also out there earning a living. Its not her fault that you aren't earning one also. I assume she also has the expense of having children living with her....so she's also managing that.

Also more importantly, the time it takes to prove entitlement and get a temporary order for SS is determined by the amount of time it takes to get an initial filing. After the CC, you have to file a motion, get an order from the court, send paperwork to FRO and then wait for them to catch up with your file. This process takes a long time...so your immense delay on your initial filing caused your problem...not your ex. The wait time is the same for everyone going through the process. Its extremely slow.

In addition, you should count yourself very lucky. There are many people who have to wait for this not only for themselves but have to manage children with zero help at all...not disability or anything else.

If you're going through a divorce...you can't rely on an ex-spouse to take care of you. That's often one of the more common reasons that people want out of marriages...because they don't want grown dependents who are financial drains. When starting a divorce, you have to realize that financially you're probably on your own....at least for approximately the first year after initial filing.
Enjoy,KIDS: judge made this comment, Kids? You have one feeloader (harsh I thought, my daughter too - but reworded by the lawyer, Judgge was leaniant! My daughter is a full time employed Nurse making very good money as she rightfully should... it is her life but with this comes the responsability to not live and pay zero towards her own support and as the judge said my ex is not in the position to make these types of judgements" - end of judge's comment. The other two, one is rarely at home now and the other as my ex told one of my nieghbours last week "I hardly see her anymore!". We raised our kids well and they are self sufficient and have been for a long time. In a different post I made the comment as I take the high road with the kids - they can make their own decisions in time, After my ex hammed it up for 5 minutes no more, the judge looked at me and I gave her the truth in one sentence.

The judge has sadly, because of my ex have now been sucked right into our divorce, when the judge made the order for the three kids to come forward with full financial disclosure from the first day of school (college) to today, thier bank accounts, savings, their school expense and use of RESP, OSAP,etc. and the employers past and present and prospective employment to finish their schoolng...... Sad - real sad.

As far as the SS, they offered $200 and again the judge made very strong comment to this - and yes the work is underway......

And take care of her??? I think that is what you said???? Gosh some sensitivity training...... and funny how, and like you have such a hard time to understand that it is ok to support your spouse for 20 years and the moment it turns the stress is too much?? Probably why there are so many amazed and discusted people here --- I realize time will equalize. Oh and gosh I shouldn't have wished for this to happen to me.....hmm I believe every other person who had no choice and still doesn't probably didn't wish for it either so maybe their spouses should clean out their accounts (yes I even had to depend on her to stay on top of our finances - today I have a volunteer helping to make sure I do not forget things like paying the bills. Gosh I wish I still had the memory I used to have too.... life would be easier........... But just make sure you never are faced with a family member that - well things don't go their way health wise..... I suppose you would do the same thing. Enjoy!!! And to think through all this I have managed to keep on the high road with our kids - older or not they do not need to be dragged into their parents divorce...... can I get you my ex's contact info so you can let her know as well????

Regards!!
(oh and I am thankfull our kids were raised well and are able to do for themselves.... I tell them every chance I get. But gosh life would be easier if I actually had the $120,000 cash that was actually put aside in my seperate retirement savings account...... to find out that it was gone??? Think that is when she figured it was time to bail..... before I could actually figure out what she did when I actually did depend on her, for the first time in my life........) Thanks for giving me the recharge I needed - You have helped me regain the focus that has been so hard to hold onto..... Have a great day!!!
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:15 PM
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An irrational emotional response to a very direct post. It wasn't an opinion...just simple facts.

I actually understood very little of what you said...especially this:

Quote:
The judge has sadly, because of my ex have now been sucked right into our divorce
Frankly, I would hope so...that's a judge's job.


Fact: You took you an incredibly long time to file..therefore anytime to temporary agreements, financial disclosure and eventually final settlements are that much longer.

Fact: During that time, she is under zero obligation to pay you SS until there is a temporary order.

Fact: Every parent should keep their children out of their divorce issues. Its not noble...its your responsibility as a parent to do so. I'm not sure why you mention that every post as if you want a medal for doing it.

Fact: Regardless of your health status, you have the obligation to get through the family law process which is time consuming and this time has been lengthened due to the lateness of your initial filing. It is the same for everyone and you have only one person to take care of....imagine the people who have to manage with children in the mix. Its the same for them which is why you need back-up resources during divorce. As I stated, you cannot rely on an ex-spouse to support you during divorce. Its very unlikely to happen.

FACT: Its not unusual for funds to be moved during the divorce process...which is again why its advised that you quickly file to establish a firm separation date. Some people additionally have to deal with business funds being taken and misused.

I'm not sure why you're under the assumption that the Family Law system should be moving heaven and earth to help you in particular. I'm just simply informing you that its working exactly the same way it does for everyone else....even people with multiple children.

By the way, I do have friends and family members with health issues...a few of them, however, even the one with cancer and MS works part-time from home since she's still able to use a computer. When she was taking chemo...she got an online degree in web design since wasn't able to work at the automotive job she was employed in previously. Its probably not easy for her but she does it and she's an empowered, amazing person.

By the way: As to this:

Quote:
And take care of her??? I think that is what you said????
Never said any such thing...I re-read my post.

Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 08-01-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:00 PM
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Default Net Worth I hope I did this rite

Ok more info about this post and I’ll make a separate post for question 2.
. Going back, the last 4.5 / 5 years.
1st- we are / were married 37 yrs. Almost to separation date.
2nd-There is a separation date. The date she wants is 6 months earlier than what it should be. It all has to do with money as she had a promotion a month after the separation date.
3rd-The MH was appraisal five months after her separation date. I had another appraisal do last year and it is the same as the first one. This second appraisal was done because she thinks the house had increased in value over the past3.5 years by 80K. It hadn’t, that doesn’t make her happy.
4th- I do not think the rent thing will come up as the total house expenses are a lot higher than what the same house rents for in this area.
5th- She pays me temporary SS as of last year. I’m receiving CPP as I physically can’t work to make a living anymore.
6th-Self-emploded 32 yrs and My NW ends up less than 0= high (-$$K).
a- 6/5 years ago, I had a lot of work. More than what I should’ve had. I had a *partner* that was not helping as he should have. My health was not the best either, but I was sure I could do the work (a man thing)! Health went down hill real fast 5 yrs ago and I started to have operations and I could not work. So I had to cancel all the uncompleted work. Not my happiest moment in time.
b- *Partner* was not play nice with the receivables and the money was’nt go into the bank as it should of….. It took 2 years to get to the bottom of this as I was on a lot of meds at the time. It is now all gone or so I’m told.
c- 6 years ago I made some good money with penny stocks. I did not realize how good it was manly because I was on the pain meds and my pencil was not that sharp then. So I slipped up on the capital gains and this messed up my income tax.
d- Unfinished work + lose of money + taxes + taxes + income tax = (-$$$K) + investment (not counting the MH I’ll make that a separate post) = I have a - Net worth.
e- My ex’s lawyer what’s to disallow ¾ of the -NW He thinks I did this on purpose. As if at the time I new I was going to have an ex in my life, a thief and need to have so many surgeries.
So the question is can her lawyer do what he is planning?

TKU
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P.S. Question #2 as a new link
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