List of Section 7 Expenses

[May_May]

Hi everyone...my lawyer has asked me to write up a list of Section 7 expenses to include with our separation. My ex has a different perspective than I do. He expects me to split rep hockey (50% of approx. $5K/season/child) but he will not split school costs such as pizza lunch/milk...
Does anyon have a list they can recommend that they have used and wouldn't mind sharing (just so I can ensure I'm not missing anything), or websites that might have listings...
THanks everyone...

[standing on the sidelines]

to me pizza lunch and milk at school is not a section 7. If you are the cp then to me that is the kids lunch at school so you should pay for it.

AS to the rep hockey, WOW thats a lot of money. To me if it is just for recreation then there should be cheaper alternatives then that. That could be your arguement on paying that much for it. But to me it would be a section 7

I have a feeling that there will not no firm list on what is or isnt section 7. Trying to make all extras like pizza day at school a section 7 would not be fair unless the NCP gets a break in CS payments.

[May_May]

Thanks standing...I should have added we do joint/shared 50/50...
No CP payments. In our current negotiations going back and forth, he has asked for me to pay a bit to him each month for CS to account for the difference in our salaries.

[standing on the sidelines]

Originally Posted by May_May

Thanks standing...I should have added we do joint/shared 50/50...
No CP payments. In our current negotiations going back and forth, he has asked for me to pay a bit to him each month for CS to account for the difference in our salaries.

now to me that changes it a bit. If its 50\50 then he should be willing to pay for half the pizza etc as they probably get it when they go to school while he has his 50%. You should not have to suck up all the cost.

[first timer]

My access is also 50/50. I only pay for half of the costs, that are not included under Section 7, if I agree to cover them beforehand not after the fact. If my ex goes ahead and accrues costs such as the "school lunch program" without my agreement to cover 50% than she is responsible for all of the costs. I view providing school lunches as part of her grocery bill when our kids are with her and if she chooses to do this through a program than its her extra costs not mine, unless I agree of course.

[billm]

For 50/50 access, you should pay offset CS based on your incomes adjusted yearly.

If you do that, then you have balanced all the monies in both households for normal expenses. Extraordinary expenses should be split according to income.

In my view it is simple. Normal expenses that are not directly associated with one house should be shared equally, regardless of who buys them. These should be split 50/50.

So Rep hockey, any sports, clothing, lunch programs, are all shared expenses.

The question is which are Section 7 and which are not, and how do you handle reimbursing expenses. Also keep in mind that Section 7 (non medical ones), need to be agreed to and cannot be unilaterally decided upon and expect the other person to pay.

My view is that Rep hockey is Section 7.

If the combined income of the parents is high (over 80K at least), then I think house league hockey is normal (not section 7). Or in other words CS would cover one extracurricular house league level sport or similar activity.

So for hockey to be truly fair, split Rep hockey cost according to income, but first subtract the cost of house league hockey, and share that portion 50/50. Maybe that is taking things too far, but it does make sense.

Lunch program should be split 50/50.

My kids clothing is not tied to one home and is a normal expense - so that should be split 50/50 too.

So one method is to allow both of you to keep receipts for any and all shared expenses (normal and S. 7), and balance things out monthly or so.

OR, share all Section 7, but for normal expense have a rule such as 'has to be over $100', or something and both agree you will do your best to balance the spending in normal expenses. To me this could lead to arguments ("I take the kids cloth shopping all the time"), but could work for some.

[May_May]

Originally Posted by first timer

...If my ex goes ahead and accrues costs such as the "school lunch program" without my agreement to cover 50% than she is responsible for all of the costs. I view providing school lunches as part of her grocery bill when our kids are with her and if she chooses to do this through a program than its her extra costs not mine, unless I agree of course.

Thanks first timer...I agree. From Jan-Sept 2011 everything was fine. In Oct 2011 something happened (bug bit my ex' ass...) and now he will not pay for 50% of the school lunches/milk program even if asked in advance, but expects me to split expenses such as rep hockey. It is a low enough expense compared to rep hockey, and the kids want it so I find it 'silly' that he can get together $2.5K for hockey x2, plus splitting the equipment...but won't pay $50 for pizza/milk...

Originally Posted by billm

For 50/50 access, you should pay offset CS based on your incomes adjusted yearly.

Agreed...I'm OK with paying him this.

Originally Posted by billm

...Normal expenses that are not directly associated with one house should be shared equally, regardless of who buys them. These should be split 50/50.

So Rep hockey, any sports, clothing, lunch programs, are all shared expenses.

We were doing all of this successfully from Jan-Sept 2011 with no issues. (balancing receipts monthly and splitting the overage) Then in Oct. he said he would no longer split clothing, and only pay for half of coats, boots. I find this so difficult to deal with having him wanting separate clothing at each house. He sends the boys in ratty/torn clothing or pyjamas. I send the kids in proper clothing (anticipating I will get them returned the following week) and give the old clothing in a bag. I won't make them wear it. All petty but he is making it difficult. He even asked me on a separate time to pay $1.50 cash to him right then and there to split for a roll of hockey tape ! (I know...all petty but irritating. This would go usually into the monthly balancing).
I'm hoping/being optimistic and hoping that after everything is said and done with this year, it will ease up and he won't be as argumentative/ conflicting with me. I'll continue to be nice and flex for the sake of the kids (and hopefully deep down inside he feels a bit of guilt because he's being so difficult ! ha)

Originally Posted by billm

The question is which are Section 7 and which are not, and how do you handle reimbursing expenses. Also keep in mind that Section 7 (non medical ones), need to be agreed to and cannot be unilaterally decided upon and expect the other person to pay.

This is ultimately what I want in the agreement. A list up front of the ones that are agreed upoln/required to avoid the arguing/debating...then the others are 'optional' and up for discussion.
I'm OK with splitting rep hockey and sports. Our boys enjoy it and are not being forced to do it....but I have a very hard time keeping a straight face when he tells me he won't pay $50 for the kids pizza/chocolate milk which covers 6 months of the school year.

Originally Posted by billm

OR, share all Section 7, but for normal expense have a rule such as 'has to be over $100'...,

Thanks Bill...This is a great idea and I think it will really help to include in the agreement ! It's a new idea that neither of us have come up with before and it might help...Thank you !

[billm]

When I reflect on my past years - the only times that I was rigid or even unreasonable, I had a reason in my mind that may or may not have been related.

If you can find out what is bugging him, rather than why he wants $1.50, you may make progress.

It could be money - that he feels he is paying too much in some way, or something else - you have not been separated long and he is being difficult because he is mad about it.

He may be unreasonable and not be open to figuring out why he is asking for $1.50, but maybe you and/or he can figure it out.

[Berner_Faith]

Just to add to this for you May_May... you may want to look into what is covered under the children's fitness tax creditLine 365 - Children's fitness amount as some of the extracurricular activities...

Hockey would fall under this category, and eligible programs can receive up to $500 per child...this tax credit may eliminate arguing about other expenses as you both are basically getting a break of $250 per year?

Just a thought?