High income divorce

[Wllmdarcy]

How are child support and alimony generally determined when they are above the guideline ceilings. My income is above $400000 and my wife's lawyer has told her they just extend the guidelines indefinitely. I'm fairly sure this is not automatically true and going to meet with my own lawyer soon but it would be helpful to have some idea what is fair or usually before hand. It is also an unusual situation in that my spouse has moved with my kids and if I moved to be closer to my kids my income would be approximately one third of what it is now for same profession and hours

[shellshocked22]

For CS, the rules say the courts have "discretion" if the payor earns above $150K. Doesn't mean they WILL, just raises the option. Otherwise, with the odd exception (ie. shared custody) if you make X you pay Y. So, you "might" have a shot at negotiating the CS table amount over $150K. Try to negotiate with her to save everyone lots of headache and legal fees.

For spousal support, the whole thing is pretty gray anyway, regardless of income since the SS "guidelines" are just that, and you can negotiate somewhat easier. Although, I think I read income over $350K might have some special treatment. Bottom line, try to negotiate something you can both live with; try to get an end date on it.

Be careful about moving and getting less $$$, they may try to "inpute" the old salary. Defintely get a good family law lawyer.

Good luck

[dinkyface]

For child support calc, check here:

Federal Child Support Amounts: Simplified Tables

For 2 kids in Ontario:
150K -> 1992/mo
400K -> 4892/mo (1992 plus 1.16% of income over $150,000).

Your ex moved away with the kids -> not at all unusual
The fact that you'd take a significant pay cut if you moved -> not at all unusual.

Did she move away recently? (hopefully yes). Did you state in writing that you did not consent to her moving away with the kids (hopefully yes). If you answered no to either question, you're going to have a big fight to get back with your kids, and not get fleeced.

For alimony, sorry not sure. Hopefully she also has a thriving career of her own?

[Rioe]

Tell her (via email - get everything done in writing) that if she does not move the kids back to near you, you'll have to move near her and take the severe pay cut and not be able to pay as much child support. She might just move back, which is good for the kids, and if she doesn't, then you have a good argument for not having your old income imputed to you when you move.

Never take advice from your ex's lawyer. Get your own. And keep a tight rein on yours; whomever you hire is just going to see dollar signs when they find out your income. And you have to tell them your income because they see your financial disclosure form. Quite the racket family lawyers have going!

[BeenThereTwice]

I agree with previous poster quite strtongly, except I would NOT send it my email. I would have it served properly via your lawyer, so she can NEVER deny receiving it.

Your kids have a right to have you as an active parent, and that right trumps your ex's right to high SS.. so if you need to move to be in their lives, then move.

[Wllmdarcy]

Thank you all for your advice. I, of course, would never take her lawyers advice. He actually told her I would be silly not to pay her a certain amount in spousal support as I would not be taking advantage of the tax benefit and if he could only explain it to me I would be happy to pay.
My spouse and I actually get on comparatively well and I think we have a good chance of working something reasonable out. However her lawyer is clearly dangling dollar signs in front of her eyes and trying to make her feel like she is a fool if she takes anything less than the max. It is quite clear to me the primary calculation that went into his advice is how much of our money he should be able to get. I would like to get a general idea about things before I meet my lawyer as I am worried he may do the same with me.
We are going to mediation. A coworker of mine recently went through a near identical divorce with a quick and fair mediated settlement and both of their lawyers basically went nuts trying to nitpick even the standard parts of the separation agreement to the point that they both had to strongly insist that they sign off on the agreement. Both of the parties felt thier lawyers were quite bothered by making less than a thousand dollars on a 400k income

[WorkingDAD]

Originally Posted by Wllmdarcy

Thank you all for your advice. I, of course, would never take her lawyers advice. He actually told her I would be silly not to pay her a certain amount in spousal support as I would not be taking advantage of the tax benefit and if he could only explain it to me I would be happy to pay.
My spouse and I actually get on comparatively well and I think we have a good chance of working something reasonable out. However her lawyer is clearly dangling dollar signs in front of her eyes and trying to make her feel like she is a fool if she takes anything less than the max.

Just do some more reading about lawyers tactics in family Law (even info on this forum will be enough) If two of you still "get on comparatively well" use that pressures time to the max. When both of you will have lawyer I can assure you it;s not going to stay for long ....

It is quite clear to me the primary calculation that went into his advice is how much of our money he should be able to get. I would like to get a general idea about things before I meet my lawyer as I am worried he may do the same with me.

that good starting point.

We are going to mediation. A coworker of mine recently went through a near identical divorce with a quick and fair mediated settlement and both of their lawyers basically went nuts trying to nitpick even the standard parts of the separation agreement to the point that they both had to strongly insist that they sign off on the agreement.

Both of the parties felt their lawyers were quite bothered by making less than a thousand dollars on a 400k income

I would like to see thous faces. I mean guys could you imagine faces of lawyers who made 1k on 400k income? That priceless... If you had a chance to do the same please please please make a picture

just get ready for mediation. Make sure you know your offer (best and agreeable)

[Wllmdarcy]

Her lawyer has basically conceded that given the situation it would be difficult for her to contest my moving or to have support based on my current situation as much of my salary is based on unique circumstances that are not typical for my profession. Currently I am ok with traveling to see my kids and would like provide for my ex and kids better than I could if I moved. The difficult thing is that need to explain to my ex that the amount of support is significant in my ability to continue to do this. It is not that I would move just because I felt the support was too high as, from a purely money point of view, I would lose just as much as she would. It's just I work 60 - 80 hrs a week, have to travel to see my kids and have a very stressful job. If you add to that sending 60% of my income to her at some point it just becomes to much and I just won't be able to do it. It's hard not to have this come across as a threat ie accept lower support or I will move and your support will decrease by 2/3 but I don't mean it this way. I just need her to understand that if she is able to be more reasonable we may be able to make this work

[Rioe]

If she is the one who moved, you can argue pretty easily that she should be the one to do the travelling for the kids to see you. Instead of you going to her town every visit, she could be ordered to drive them back to you regularly. Some people arrange it so the receiving parent is the one to do the driving, so you'd go there to get them, and she'd come to you to retrieve them.

Frankly, you sound like you and your ex, if you still get along fairly well, could probably come up with a separation agreement on your own, then each take to legal counsel for fine tuning. There are sample agreements around and about, like a kit at Staples, or in the appendix of the book Surviving your Divorce by Michael Cochrane (which I recommend as essential reading for anyone separating), and much discussion on here. Some research will save you much in the way of lawyer fees, and if you can get your ex on board collaboratively instead of confrontationally (which is what most lawyers encourage) it will be far far better for your children.

Good luck!