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Breezer 08-09-2017 09:42 AM

Help - Spousal Support
Long story, I'll keep it as short as possible. Married for 21 years, separation date of Aug '15.
I held permanent gov job the entire marriage. My husband had contracts, permanent job by 1999 and, in 2005, once we had a 5 and 8 year old, decided he didn't like his job so he asked for buyout, told me about it after the fact. Felt he needed a break so waited about 4 months before looking for new job and then it took him 7 months to find one . He started contracting so from 2006 - 2014 held various contracts with 3 long bouts of unemployment, 6 - 10 months. When working he made good money. Even when he was unemployed, I was the constant caregiver for kids, took care of cooking, cleaning husband also liked to do adventure trips and was into extreme sports. Up until that time, we led pretty much parallel lives and avoided the situation. We both weren't happy with marriage but it was easier to stay and we still managed to provide a stable home for our 2 kids. They had all they needed, played competitive sports, generally happy kids. in 2014, my husband was involved in a serious accident while doing an extreme sport, landed him in the hospital for 4 months, suffered a traumatic brain injury as well as very severe physical injuries. Following accident, it was impossible to live with him, brain injury caused him alot of anger became very verbally abusive. Thankfully, he took out a private disability policy when he started his company in 2006 so he now gets approximately $3700 a month tax free from this policy. His rent is $800 a month.
I've kept house, kids live with me 100% of the time, one in full time university. I have been full time mother to 2 emotional teenage girls for past 3 years, I feel that in itself deserves compensation. House is still in both our names but I've made all payments associated to it since he moved out and it's not a big house. I've also been paying everything associated with the kids, he has contributed nothing.
We've provided financial statements, I'm barely keeping afloat. I can accept that I will have to buy him out of the house, I can accept that I will have to pay him a third of my pension (he has RRSPs) but I cannot accept that I will have to pay him spousal support for an indeterminate amount of time. For timebeing, spousal and child will offset eachother but once kids are gone, I will have to pay him over $1000 a month.
Sorry for my long story, thank you for reading it, if anyone can provide me any insight on the spousal issue, that would be very much appreciated.

Newfie76 08-09-2017 11:16 AM

I assume you have a lawyer and discussed this? I agree with you. Spousal should never be paid. Their is NEVER an ethical reason to provide spousal support. Unless you locked him in the basement and never allowed him to better his life. But that would be illegal and Spousal support is law. Spousal support was lobbied by a strong feminist movement to empower women leaving a marriage. However, today there are more women earning more than their ex-spouse.

If you don't have a lawyer, get one. Ask him to negotiate spousal IF it is decided you must pay it. Does you ex have health insurance? If you never get divorced and remain separated, your gov job med insurance would keep him covered. So use that as leverage if you don't mind staying in the separation zone. And it sounds like he needs med this could help reduce your cash payout.

And don't let anyone tell you, "Spousal is a write off anyway...". Yes it is...but you worked for that money, not your ex.

Breezer 08-09-2017 11:55 AM

Thank you for your input. Yes, I do have a lawyer and yes, we have discussed, and I do trust her, however, I feel you can never do enough research on your own. He was certainly not locked in the basement and free to travel as he pleased while I stayed home with my girls...which I will never regret as I am closer to them today then ever. At the same time, I enabled it and I feel that is what will hurt me. Also, sympathy will be with him because of his being disabled. Negotiating on the medical/dental is a good idea. Anyway, thank you for your input and taking the time to listen to my rant. I just need this to be over so I can move on with my life.

Rioe 08-09-2017 02:05 PM

He worked for nearly the whole duration of the marriage. Yes, there were bouts of unemployment, due to the nature of his contract work, but on the whole, there was clearly never an expectation that he should be a stay-at-home supportive partner sacrificing a career to help you advance yours. Now, he gets his income from his disability insurance, which he sensibly signed up for many years ago. That's what it is designed for. It's his income substitution due to his injury preventing him from working. Presumably he had the right amount of insurance to provide a comparable income to what he once earned.

I don't see how he could be entitled to additional income substitution from you, unless you make significantly more money than he does, which from your description, it doesn't sound like you do.

So he's coming to ask for SS now? After successfully supporting himself with the disability payments for two years, proving that he doesn't need it?

Breezer 08-09-2017 02:28 PM

Thanks for your input Rioe. I'm not worried about the compensatory SS because never did he take care of the family even when unemployed, I still did cooking/cleaning/took care of kids....yes, I know, I enabled the situation. I'm worried about the non-compensatory because of disability and the fact we were together 21 years. There is still a fair disparity in our salaries, however, my expenses are much more than his, considering I'm taking care of matrimonial home and kids on my own. Anyway, I really appreciate the input.

ifonlyihadknown 08-11-2017 08:05 AM

Does the "rule of 65" kick in? If years of marriage (21), his age is 44 or more (total is 65 or more), it makes it worse for you.

whyme? 08-14-2017 02:20 PM

since his injury happened prior to separation that may be taken into consideration...or not. Does he have any earning potential whatsoever now? Or would obtaining income cut into disability payments?

piggybanktoex 08-15-2017 01:55 PM

I have to pay my ex over 150K a year for 20 years. Plus she took the house.

And that was with 50-50 and she doesnt't even have to work.

Don't confuse "fair with justice".....welcome to divorce.

Desperate_Dad 09-04-2017 10:48 PM

You have given us very limited information but I will try to be of some assistance.

We know he receives 3,700 per month tax free from his private disability policy.

Does he receive any other income? CPP Disability? Childrens disability benefits?

Is he eligible for the disability tax credit?
How much do you make?

You should never offset child support with spousal support in a case like this. It's possible he is eligible for the disability tax credit and obviously also receives the personal exemption therefore he could have up to 20,000 of income he could write off without paying tax.

So imagine this scenario.

He pays you 1,000 child support.
You pay him 1,000 spousal support (tax deductible for you but taxable for him.
Even though its taxable for him, he can write it all off with his personal exemption and likely disability tax credit.
Then you write off the 1,000 and if you are in a 40% tax bracket, you get an extra 400 a month with no effect to him.

I\'m thinking you\'d like an extra 400 a month, yes?

Lawyers and judges no nothing about finance or how to structure a settlement to benefit both parties. And don\'t even get me started on what a garbage program Divorcemate is.

So bottom line is I need more information to help you but I\'ve suggested some things for you to think about.

sahibjee 09-05-2017 01:48 AM

I have seen prenups thrown out of the window by judges when one party was disabled during the marriage, It seems like your lawyer has already told you that you will have to pay up. In my learning for an indefinite amount of time. As said above the guidelines were written by stanch feminists, the best you can do now is to make everyone around you aware of the negatives of feminism and how it has come back to bite you unfortunately.

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