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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2014, 01:46 PM
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Lol it's Ok, it's interesting to hear the various situations regardless.

I'm still stumped though. The extracurricular cost in question is not overly expensive, but cost is a factor for us I'm afraid to say, with the current dental and medical expenses coming up I do have to consider where every $100 goes. Dental and medical costs are necessities, extra curriculars are luxuries.

The main thing I guess, does a $200 basic extra curricular count as an extraordinary cost? Or can the CP reasonably be expected to pay for such basic extra curriculars given their income of around $40000?
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:48 PM
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Wyntermcd - How much CS do you get paid each month? And for how many children. That will determine...

And is the $200 for a years worth of sports?
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serene View Post
Wyntermcd - How much CS do you get paid each month? And for how many children. That will determine...

And is the $200 for a years worth of sports?
She makes $40K, but what do you make (and pay full CS on)? Combined income matters.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:27 PM
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Bill, I disagree. What matters is how much money is being received as CS. Not how much the receiving parent makes. Let me break it down:

Paying parent of CS pays XX a month - the question is does the amount include or exclude Section 7 expenses. That will depend on how much money is being paid for CS. In our case, we paid $1500 a month in CS and the amount of $135 PER MONTH was deemed to have been paid in our monthly CS amount of $1500 month (this was determined not by the parents/parties).

Only when it has been determined by the courts or parties (if they can get along) that the section 7 is not already included in the monthly CS **THEN** does the parties incomes come into play. Because then the incomes are needed to determine how much each parent will contribute towards the section 7 expense.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyntermcd View Post

The main thing I guess, does a $200 basic extra curricular count as an extraordinary cost? Or can the CP reasonably be expected to pay for such basic extra curriculars given their income of around $40000?
That would normally not be section 7, or considered extraordinary.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:58 PM
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From the Ontario Family Law act, and the definition of Section 7 "extraordinary expenses";
--
Definition, “extraordinary expenses”
(1.1) For the purposes of clauses (1) (d) and (f),
“extraordinary expenses” means
(a) expenses that exceed those that the parent or spouse requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover, taking into account that parent’s or spouse’s income and the amount that the parent or spouse would receive under the applicable table or, where the court has determined that the table amount is inappropriate, the amount that the court has otherwise determined is appropriate, or
(b) where clause (a) is not applicable, expenses that the court considers are extraordinary taking into account,
(i) the amount of the expense in relation to the income of the parent or spouse requesting the amount, including the amount that the parent or spouse would receive under the applicable table or, where the court has determined that the table amount is inappropriate, the amount that the court has otherwise determined is appropriate,
(ii) the nature and number of the educational programs and extracurricular activities,
(iii) any special needs and talents of the child,
(iv) the overall cost of the programs and activities, and
(v) any other similar factors that the court considers relevant. O. Reg. 102/06, s. 1.
--
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serene View Post
Bill, I disagree. What matters is how much money is being received as CS. Not how much the receiving parent makes...
What matters, is the defintion of "extraordinary expenses", and how they apply in each scenario.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2014, 03:00 PM
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If a parent is making $40,000 a year, and is receiving child support as the custodial parent, then I can't see $200 being considered a section 7 expense, to fight over.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyntermcd View Post
Lol it's Ok, it's interesting to hear the various situations regardless.

I'm still stumped though. The extracurricular cost in question is not overly expensive, but cost is a factor for us I'm afraid to say, with the current dental and medical expenses coming up I do have to consider where every $100 goes. Dental and medical costs are necessities, extra curriculars are luxuries.

The main thing I guess, does a $200 basic extra curricular count as an extraordinary cost? Or can the CP reasonably be expected to pay for such basic extra curriculars given their income of around $40000?
The better question is not what the CP can reasonable be expected to pay, it's what you can reasonably be expected to pay.

You indicate that money on your end is tight. Given your financial situation, what can you afford to take on as an extraordinary expense? Medical and dental expenses, like childcare, you have to pay (as with any expenses which are explicitly named in your divorce order). The rest is discretionary. So the ex can come come to you and say "I want to enroll kid in an extracurricular activity that costs $200 per month". You can say either "That sounds fine, send me the receipt and I'll reimburse you" or "Sorry, I can't afford that but if you are able to foot the bill yourself from your income, it's fine with me if kid participates". The ex doesn't dictate what extracurricular activities you will pay for.

In general, it's good to be as generous as possible with extraordinary S7s and not nickel-and-dime your kid out of taking part in something that s/he enjoys. But if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. It would be the same if you were still married - some things are affordable and some aren't. Even married parents don't always agree on what extracurriculars are affordable and what aren't. I know a couple who were facing foreclosure on their mortgage, yet the wife still thought they should pay for a high-school trip to Australia.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serene View Post
Bill, I disagree. What matters is how much money is being received as CS. Not how much the receiving parent makes. Let me break it down:

...
As dad2bandm pointed out, this is not correct.

For an expense to be extraordinary BOTH incomes must be looked at. See 1.1(a) of dad2bandm post.

For example if the CP makes $200K and the NCP makes $20K, then what constitutes extraordinary expense is very different than if the CP makes $20k and the NCP makes $20K.

If the CP makes $20K and the NCP makes $200K, or the CP makes $200K and the NCP makes $20K, what constitutes extraordinary would be the same - it is the combined income that needs to be looked at.
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