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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 09:05 PM
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Default Ex's job loss and daycare

Hello
My ex just informed me that he lost his job. I have primary custody of our son and have enrolled him in daycare. Our court order is barely 2 months old and I have just up for FRO. I have not received any payments from FRO. I am likely going to be approved for subsidy for daycare do that is not an issue, however ex is claiming that he should not have to now pay any spousal support and will try to modify to pay less child support. He made 85k I made under 20k. He says he will go after me for spousal support too, since I make something and he makes nothing. Also he says that now that he has time till he finds another job he should watch our son while I work. I said no way, and he has accused me of parental aluenation even though I have not with held any visitation time with our son from him. This is his 7th job loss in a decade and after a very painful and frightening situation our son is just getting stabilized and settling in with a new routine. Plus ex should be looking for a new job and he's half an hour away. Right now court order is he gets every other weekend. Do I have to pull our son out of dc? Any thoughts?
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:27 PM
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He is fully capable of working and should be imputed a wage comparable to the average wage in his industry. "Impute" means he is assumed to be making that much for calculations of child support (and spousal if you are receiving that.)

In an intact family, you don't stop feeding your kids just because you lost your job. You look for a new job and go into debt if you have to.

He is resposible for paying according to your last court order unless/until a new order is in place. He has a snowballs chance in hell of getting you to pay spousal support.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:36 PM
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It looks like you are out of the house now, and have moved? Maintain the status quo, move forward on your daycare subsidy. If your order has been filed with FRO, he can't stop it without a new order.

Let him continue to postulate, and don't fret. Any decent lawyer (or you, self-rep) will impute him an income unless he's also had a major stroke in addition to losing his job, and can't work for physical reasons.

And umm. yeah, what Mess said - he won't be receiving spousal support.. Too funny!

This must be stressful for you, but just move forward, settle your son and household, obtain the subsidy and keep going.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:43 PM
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Yes, I moved out, the issues were just too extreme and not worth it, a lot of psychological abuse that is still affecting my son and I. Even today he came to pick up our son and I could see him from upstairs taking pictures outside of my mothers house, property and cars, for whatever crazy reason. He kept the house, the furniture, appliances, rrsp's, etc. I settled for a very paltry sum of spousal, only for one year. Even his lawyer said that if a judge looked at it he would double my offer and for much longer. Subsidy is available for when parents need to find a job as well as for when they're working or going to school, so he cannot suddenly be an 'available parent'. Hostile one maybe though.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:29 PM
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Hey Slug:
oh no the magical abuse card raises its head. its one thing to say it but can you PROVE it......

Yes I can, which is why he settled out of court the day of trial. Doctors records, witnessess, etc.

also if you did get such a good deal he is probably only blowing steam

He got the good *financial* deal, not me, I got primary custody.

but again only one side of the story

i would wonder why you would settle on less then what you were entittled too?

Because some things are not worth it and its not all about entitlement
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
He is fully capable of working and should be imputed a wage comparable to the average wage in his industry. "Impute" means he is assumed to be making that much for calculations of child support (and spousal if you are receiving that.)

In an intact family, you don't stop feeding your kids just because you lost your job. You look for a new job and go into debt if you have to.

He is resposible for paying according to your last court order unless/until a new order is in place. He has a snowballs chance in hell of getting you to pay spousal support.
Mess, he is not "fully capable"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_pumpkin View Post
...This is his 7th job loss in a decade...
His actual income should be used for support calculations, not some dreamed up amount that some imaginary person could make.

CS should simply be based on a person's income, adjusted yearly. Unless they are being supported by other means such as a new spouse or parent.

As for her paying SS, it seems that they made a deal for SS of only one year, which to me says that there was little financial obligations between the two, which he agreed to, so he should not expect SS because his circumstances (which it seems could be reasonably expected) have changed.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
In an intact family, you don't stop feeding your kids just because you lost your job. You look for a new job and go into debt if you have to.
In an intact family, you spend less, you don't go into debt to maintain the same standard of living.
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_pumpkin View Post
My ex just informed me that he lost his job.
That is unfortunate to hear. This represents, if a truthful statement by the other parent, a material change in circumstance and the child support would have to be adjusted in accordance with the terms and conditions of the unemployment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_pumpkin View Post
I have primary custody of our son and have enrolled him in daycare. Our court order is barely 2 months old and I have just up for FRO. I have not received any payments from FRO. I am likely going to be approved for subsidy for daycare do that is not an issue, however ex is claiming that he should not have to now pay any spousal support and will try to modify to pay less child support.
There has to be a "material change in circumstance" and that would have to be reflected and requested at the time his income changes. More than likely the other parent got some sort of severance package which would be considered part of their income. Until such time the actual income increases or decreases from what was ordered against the table amounts it isn't "material" that the other parent lost their job. The "material" part in the change in circumstance is the change in income.

So, if the other parent got a 1-2 year severance package that pays the same wage, benefits, etc... due to downsizing and there is no change to the other parents income... Being laid off isn't a "material change in circumstance". The other parent has an obligation to pay according to the Guide Line tables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_pumpkin View Post
He made 85k I made under 20k. He says he will go after me for spousal support too, since I make something and he makes nothing. Also he says that now that he has time till he finds another job he should watch our son while I work.
Request financial disclosure regarding his severance package, duration of severance, etc... Request full and frank financial disclosure in accordance with Rule 13 of the Family Law Rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_pumpkin View Post
I said no way, and he has accused me of parental aluenation even though I have not with held any visitation time with our son from him.
What is your objection to the child spending time with the other parent? It could reduce family expenses etc. in this time of need. Is there past abuse/harm/maltreatment/neglect of the child in question by the other parent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_pumpkin View Post
This is his 7th job loss in a decade and after a very painful and frightening situation our son is just getting stabilized and settling in with a new routine.
The past decade has not been the best. Lots of people have had to do this and many families have had to adjust to the current economic conditions.

How is the other parent losing their job a "very painful and frightening situation"? This is something that happens all the time for intact and separated families.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_pumpkin View Post
Plus ex should be looking for a new job and he's half an hour away. Right now court order is he gets every other weekend. Do I have to pull our son out of dc? Any thoughts?
Yes, the other parent should be seeking employment and that is the expectation the court will hold. Do you have any evidence that the other parent is explicitly not looking for new employment at this time? Or are you just worried that the other parent won't. The other parent has had 7 jobs in the past decade and demonstrated that they are employable.

Until such time that the other parent files a "material change in circumstance" due to a *change in income* I wouldn't stress too much about it. The financial obligations are set forth in the court order. The other parent can simply provide you with the full and frank financial disclosure of their settlement package and matters can be resolved.

Change is inevitable and there is no guarantee that either you nor the other parent will have constant and continuous employment. The best way for anyone in our society to protect their financial future for themselves and their children is to invest in their career and insure their own financial security. Children depend on both parents for their well being.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billm View Post
Mess, he is not "fully capable"....
He has job skills and experience that enable him to find employment earning 85k, he is capable. He is stating that he will seek spousal support from an ex who is earning 20k. This is absurd. He is capable of finding a job and dealing with his obligations.

If he has legitimate reasons for periodic work loss, like layoffs in the industry then he should seek to have support calculated on a three year average.

If he got a bonus for one month, would you agree that the recipient instantly gets support raised? If he has circumstances that justify having support immediately lowered, like the plant went out of business and there is no possibility of comparable work in the area, then he can make that argument, sure. That is an unforseen material change. But what is described is that he loses jobs 7 times in 10 years; he obviously also gets new jobs 7 times in 10 years. He is capable of finding work.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
He has job skills and experience that enable him to find employment earning 85k, he is capable. He is stating that he will seek spousal support from an ex who is earning 20k. This is absurd. He is capable of finding a job and dealing with his obligations.
Agreed, as well the other parent has had 7 jobs in the past 10 years. Assuming that there was no period of unemployment between those jobs. Sounds like that pattern of a consultant when looking at the income level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
If he has legitimate reasons for periodic work loss, like layoffs in the industry then he should seek to have support calculated on a three year average.
Not sure if I agree yet... "What" and "how" the other parent makes an income comes into question now. Contractor, I agree as they should be planning for 'downtime'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
That is an unforseen material change. But what is described is that he loses jobs 7 times in 10 years; he obviously also gets new jobs 7 times in 10 years. He is capable of finding work.
It sounds more like a contractor in my opinion. 85K in income, lots of jobs... It may just be that the other parent is between contracts? Would require confirmation from the OP.

You don't job hop between 85k full time positions. The income level stated is too high and generally HR departments would see the pattern of changes in full time employment and rarely consider someone like this. It sounds like a contractor in a specialized field... (OP can you confirm?)

Good Luck!
Tayken
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