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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 12-04-2012, 08:36 AM
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Hi everyone I have some questions about this as it relates to my situation.

1) Currently I have access 5 out of every 14 days (36%) but with the next sitting of my settlement conference should be going up to 6/14 putting me into a shared physical custody situation.

2) Problem is that my X has no income to report on line 150 other than UCCB ($1200) so I would still be paying the full table amount (whose model literally assumes that the paying parent has no child related expenses) when I get to shared custody.

3) I am having huge difficulties financially (LOC maxed, CC getting there, regular expenses exceed my income every month) and am contemplating asking for an adjustment in CS.

Am I...
a) better off trying to seek an adjustment through asking for an imputed income for voluntary unemployment (my ex has a university Degree but has not attempted to gain employment, or taken any steps to update her skills to find employment at all since our separation in May 2011) or...

b) look for some acknowledgement of the increased costs of maintaining two households under section 9 b) of the guidelines?

"9. Where a parent or spouse exercises a right of access to, or has physical custody of, a child for not less than 40 per cent of the time over the course of a year, the amount of the order for the support of a child must be determined by taking into account,
(a) the amounts set out in the applicable tables for each of the parents or spouses;
(b) the increased costs of shared custody arrangements; and
(c) the condition, means, needs and other circumstances of each parent or spouse and of any child for whom support is sought. O. Reg. 391/97, s. 9."

or...
c) do nothing and hope she gets a job eventually and continue to pay full CS (and 98% of section 7, but that is another story altogether).

Any advise or experience in this area would be helpful.

Thanks in advance.

SD

Last edited by Mess; 12-04-2012 at 09:17 AM. Reason: Merged identical thread
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:36 AM
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I would seek to have the language enabling shared parenting and set-off calculation incorporated into your agreement/order, even if she makes no money now. You should also have a built in requirement to exchange tax returns each year and that the set off amount will be updated, say, June of each year. I would go for neutral wording; that is, state that each party is responsible for child support according their income, the higher earning party will pay the difference. Hypothetically, she may earn more than you some day. I realize that this seems unlikely, but this style of wording will work out better for you with CRA, and makes it clear that you are following section 9 of the Guidelines.

If you then decide not to fight her over her income this year, you at least already have the order written the way it needs to be, and you have it clearly worded to update each year.

It is relatively easier to get an imputed income ordered than get a hardship claim. That being said, you should prepare a detailed monthly budget and show the level of expense you are covering for your child including transportation costs, groceries, and a factually reasoned estimate of utilities. Since you are maintaining a larger home to have an extra bedroom, factor in this cost. Just make sure you don't over estimate or exagerate, but showing a detailed budget will certainly help you.

You don't want to come across that this is all about money, but you do want to show that your budget is on the edge and that this could affect your child in the long run. Make the point that the mother is equally responsible for supporting the child and capable of working. Wording that you two are equally responsible should be scattered all over your arguments, make the point with every issue that comes up. This is not about you trying to be cheap (which she will try to argue) but it is about equal responsibility.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:49 AM
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What does she live off now? Just CS?
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:15 AM
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Good question, if you're in financial difficulty, how has she survived this long only on $1200 a month plus child support?

Agreed, secure the wording for S9 to apply to your situation it will help down the road.

Sadly though it is pretty easy to survive off the system. I did the math recently and even if I somehow manage to get my ex off the SS wagon once the child enters school full-time, if she still chooses not to work and goes on welfare instead she STILL makes more money than I do today.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:48 AM
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Have her imputed an income equal to full time hours at minimum wage.

Once you have a court order showing at least 40% custody, file for the CCTB/UCCB as a shared arrangement.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
I would seek to have the language enabling shared parenting and set-off calculation incorporated into your agreement/order, even if she makes no money now. You should also have a built in requirement to exchange tax returns each year and that the set off amount will be updated, say, June of each year. I would go for neutral wording; that is, state that each party is responsible for child support according their income, the higher earning party will pay the difference. Hypothetically, she may earn more than you some day. I realize that this seems unlikely, but this style of wording will work out better for you with CRA, and makes it clear that you are following section 9 of the Guidelines.

If you then decide not to fight her over her income this year, you at least already have the order written the way it needs to be, and you have it clearly worded to update each year.

It is relatively easier to get an imputed income ordered than get a hardship claim. That being said, you should prepare a detailed monthly budget and show the level of expense you are covering for your child including transportation costs, groceries, and a factually reasoned estimate of utilities. Since you are maintaining a larger home to have an extra bedroom, factor in this cost. Just make sure you don't over estimate or exagerate, but showing a detailed budget will certainly help you.

You don't want to come across that this is all about money, but you do want to show that your budget is on the edge and that this could affect your child in the long run. Make the point that the mother is equally responsible for supporting the child and capable of working. Wording that you two are equally responsible should be scattered all over your arguments, make the point with every issue that comes up. This is not about you trying to be cheap (which she will try to argue) but it is about equal responsibility.
Sorry I didn't realize there was a double post.. thanks for fixing that...

Great advice.

Get 40% in an order then worry about it later. The wording will be key, because she has already accused me of "not supporting my kids" and "just worried about the money" on a couple occasions. She doesn't buy that I'm on the edge of financial disaster and can't contribute to regular expenses beyond the CS I provide for the children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billm View Post
What does she live off now? Just CS?
See below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingForFamily View Post
Good question, if you're in financial difficulty, how has she survived this long only on $1200 a month plus child support?

Agreed, secure the wording for S9 to apply to your situation it will help down the road.

Sadly though it is pretty easy to survive off the system. I did the math recently and even if I somehow manage to get my ex off the SS wagon once the child enters school full-time, if she still chooses not to work and goes on welfare instead she STILL makes more money than I do today.
This is the problem I have. I am working full time, paying for everything out of pocket, while she is in rent-geared to income (pays only about $400, utilities included, for a townhome that the market rate is ~$1200/ month + utilities), receives a large amount in CCTB and related benefits (>$1200/mnth), and then there is GST, UCCB and OTB which add another $3000+ for the year. And I'm sure she is getting help through other organisations as well helping with groceries and other daily needs things.

She doesn't even collect Ontario Works and has more disposable income than I do. It really frustrates me when I look at all my bank balances each month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBDad View Post
Have her imputed an income equal to full time hours at minimum wage.

Once you have a court order showing at least 40% custody, file for the CCTB/UCCB as a shared arrangement.
I do plan to do this but I have a an issue with the CCTB split since the greater benefit is if she continues to collect the benefit. If CRA doesn't get in the way I will probably try to negotiate an adjusted CS amount to off set the amount I would receive from CCTB. If I do make the claim the difference is $400+ a month that my kids don't have access to.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:36 PM
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You can't go into court and argue that you are on the brink of financial disaster, and then in the next breath say you don't need the CCTB.

You are also complaining she doesn't work because she has so much govt income, but she will be collecting it illegally and you will be supporting that? Her collecting the whole thing is "the greater benefit" because it's fraud.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
You can't go into court and argue that you are on the brink of financial disaster, and then in the next breath say you don't need the CCTB.

You are also complaining she doesn't work because she has so much govt income, but she will be collecting it illegally and you will be supporting that? Her collecting the whole thing is "the greater benefit" because it's fraud.
Point taken. I wasn't trying to say I didn't need it, but was trying to find a way that my kids didn't 'lose' money that is meant for and could help them. I personally think that the new CCTB rules are great but think that the way they divide up the funds is too simplistic and can actually be a detriment in some cases.
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