Supervised Access?

[representingself]

My daughter has not seen her biological father since she was 4. She is almost 13 now.

I filed a Motion to Vary to update our 12 year old Court Order. In response, my ex claimed that due to the fact that my husband has raised our daughter and financially provides for her that he should not have to pay any child support "past, present or future", (he pays $125/mnth, sometimes).

He also stated that in return for an order permanently terminating his CS obligation, he would relinquish all parental rights and consent to an adoption.

The problem is that my daughter is a very intelligent, mature young tweenager and she has many, many questions about her biological father, his family and his life. She has expressed an interest in having a relationship with her extended family, (which in my opinion is totally natural and understandable).

We have come to realize that an adoption order will not provide her with any type of closure, and the main result of same would be allowing my ex to entirely abandon our child, in every way. I feel that he should at least contribute to her savings account, if he is unwilling to contribute to her life. Call me greedy, money hungry...whatever... I think it is the least he can do for her.

So I am continuing to pursue an updated CS order, s.7 contributions...

At our first (and only) Case Conference so far, when my ex realized that the Judge wasn't going to let him off the hook so easily, my ex questioned if the "old order" was still enforcable... the Judge said yes!

So my ex then stated "then I want my daughter for my weekend access".

Ofcourse the CC was on a Friday, and the 12 year old order provided for EOW access from Friday at 6:00pm to Sunday at 6:00 pm.

The Judge directed my ex to refrain from trying to attend my home that evening....(remember she hasn't seen him in 8+ years), or he may end up in criminal court as well.

Well, when we went to leave the courthouse, my ex yelled at me and threatened to bring the Police to my home that evening and take our child by force.

Needless to say, I was very worried and upset, and waited at the door all evening for said confrontation. Thankfully, he didn't show up.

That being said, he did contact the Police and while I am not aware of the details of the conversation, he did try and get them involved.

As I stated earlier, my child is interested in getting to know her father, and I am not objecting her right to do so....however, I will not allow their reintroduction to be under duress and forced.

He is in essence a stranger to her.

So.... my question is this...

How do I avoid a similar confrontation?

When and IF he agrees to see her, due to the fact it has been so long... said visits need some structure and possibly supervision. I would want her to feel comfortable.

I honestly believe he does not want anything to do with her, (though I would never tell her that).... but if he thinks that forcing access would hurt me in any way, he would certainly stop at nothing to accomplish his task.

He has a viscious temper....and I am the spark to his explosion!

Any suggestions on how I should approach the issue of access when writing my newest case conference brief?

[representingself]

Nothing from anyone

[dadtotheend]

You should inform your ex that your daughter is interested in establishing a relationship with him but that this needs to proceed slowly in order to protect her emotional health. If bio Dad can be reasonable about this, you should be guided by your gut feel as to how to proceed. The court is not the body to govern here, you are.

Don't worry about the police. They won't enforce the order and have better things to do criminally.

Regarding the CS, it's a done deal. He's obligated and cannot negotiate it away with an adoption, or any other, order. If you want to sell him to make it more palatable (not that you need to, but just to encourage agreement), consider putting the money in an RESP (that you own) rather than her savings account. That will be a much more worthwhile longer term prize, one which your daughter can look forward to and maybe even thank him for down the road, as that money can be concretely attributed to contributions her father made to her education.

[standing on the sidelines]

if he wants to see her and she is wanting to see him then they should see each other. I can understand that you think (and are probably right) that he is just doing this to spite you.

I do not think he needs supervised access but maybe for the first visit should be a shorter one and not a whole weekend. Then if she feels comfortable the weekend vistits can start. Who knows maybe this can be the start of a wonderful fatehr/daughter relationship

[Mess]

He can't force the adoption, you both would have to agree.

It is possible for him to be absolved of all CS if your current husband (or anyone else for that matter) adopts the child. This would be the same as any other adoption, and once children are adopted, the bio parents do not pay support to the adoptive parents. This is the law in Ontario, I understand it is not common in all provinces. It's probably the only legal way to get out of paying CS completely, but again, there can be no adoption if you don't agree, and certainly your current husband has to agree.

At age of 12 your daughter's opinion would be taken into account as far as access goes, and certainly the courts won't force an access order on a teenager. If she refuses to see him at all, ever, he may have grounds to seek termination of support, but that is a long tough argument.

He certainly owes support and arrears right now.

If you want allow access but have controlled or supervised access, you should get a proper order ASAP. But meanwhile, support orders don't depend on access, and access doesn't depend on support. So separate the issues in your mind and try to get an order that is in the best interests of your daughter.

[representingself]

Originally Posted by standing on the sidelines

if he wants to see her and she is wanting to see him then they should see each other. I can understand that you think (and are probably right) that he is just doing this to spite you.

Problem is.... he doesn't want to see her.

I know many of you have a hard time believing that....

Honestly... I am one of those freakish women who BELIEVES that my child has a right to know her Father and have never stood in the way.

Call me crazy but how I feel about that man has NOTHING to do with my daughter.....(even if my feelings/thoughts towards him are negative, to say the least).

She has been asking to see him for almost a year and a half.... he refuses. No reason, no explaination... he just refuses to return my calls, answer my emails or letters and then accuses me of stalking him.

The closest we have ever came to him agreeing to see her was the threat he made at the court house.

Originally Posted by standing on the sidelines

I do not think he needs supervised access but maybe for the first visit should be a shorter one and not a whole weekend. Then if she feels comfortable the weekend vistits can start. Who knows maybe this can be the start of a wonderful fatehr/daughter relationship

Yes, he is her father...but she has had absolutely NO contact with her since she was 4. She is almost 13 now. Complete strangers...

I am just so frusturated with this situation....

[tugofwar]

Wow, that's really bad for you and your daughter. As much as you feel he owes for cs etc I think you have to think about the big picture here.

Someone once asked me if I felt so strongly about sole custody and have been supporting my child on my own (have been for a year with no cs) would I give up cs because of how strongly I felt about having sole. First hands in the air, no no he has a financial obligation to meet but w hat this person was trying to do was to get me to really think about it....
My daughter will when she's older look back and think, my mom was fighting for me, for my well being and wow look at what she did for me......
In saying this, I am not saying I don't want a relationship between my daughter and her father, but I stopped forcing it.
If it ment not getting a penny from him, would he stop this non sense of just having time with her so he doesn't have to pay or pay less.
Gets you thinking...
But I also feel for you, he has an obligation to you and his daughter and just because he wants nothing to do with his daughter doesn't mean that he should totally abandon her.

[representingself]

I wish it were that easy.

Part of the reason why I tracked my ex down in the first place, was because I was finally getting married and wanted my ex to step aside and allow my new husband to adopt her.

My husband and I thought that an adoption would bring my daughter some closure and she would feel loved and wanted and 100% that she was where she belonged.

We do not "need" his financial contributions, we provide well for her without his assistance.

Unfortunately, ex and I cannot communicate effectively and in the end, the papers were not signed. I thought if I sought a CS increase and took him to court, he would concede and agree to the adoption.

Problem with that was, in the meantime, my daughter was getting older, and started asking questions about her father, and wanted to reach out to her grandmother.

You know the saying.... "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"?? Well..... I do not speak about her about her father in a negative way and I cannot answer her questions for her.... which just fuels her curosity even more. (I was very young when I got pregnant (18), and the relationship was very short... and it ended when I was 2 months pregnant).. so I honestly cannot answer any of her questions.

I don't know her father ver much at all....

I have offered access to him and his mother and they refuse....well actually the grandmother refuses and my ex just ignores me completely.

NOW, he wants to sign off his parental rights in exchange for a release from paying CS. When I refused is when he claimed "hardship".

Yes, I realize that this would be easier if I just let him walk away forever.... no court battle, no stress.... but my daughter will always have her questions.... the adoption will not give her the closure we thought it would...

The only person who wins will be him.... because he will finally be able to cut all ties with her and move on like she doesn't even exist.

My daughter is an amazing young lady, and it makes me so angry that he and his family treat her like this... but there is nothing I can do about that.

I guess I just thought that, at the very least, when my daughter gets older, she will have a bank account with some money in it for whatever she wants.... college, new car...whatever.

Am I so unreasonable?

Isn't that the LEAST he can do for her?

Why should I just let him disappear?

[Mess]

Originally Posted by representingself

Part of the reason why I tracked my ex down in the first place, was because I was finally getting married and wanted my ex to step aside and allow my new husband to adopt her.

We do not "need" his financial contributions, we provide well for her without his assistance.

NOW, he wants to sign off his parental rights in exchange for a release from paying CS. When I refused is when he claimed "hardship".

He is ready to take you up on your original offer, but you are taking the offer back.

It's because your daughter is curious about him, yes, but if the adoption had gone through years ago, she would still be curious, she would still want to make contact, and she could still do that with or without your approval.

Many adopted children make contact with their bio parents when they get older, with mixed results. There are no guarentees in life.

Adopting or not adopting won't change anything for your daughter. She will still have the same relationship you and your husband, and her bio-father will still be the same person, she won't have any different relationship with him either way.

I have offered access to him and his mother and they refuse....well actually the grandmother refuses and my ex just ignores me completely.

But the problem now is that he is asking for access?

And I realize I am over simplifying, but the situation is becoming over complicated. There are too many mixed motivations here, and you need to sort that out and prioritize.

You have provided for your child just fine for years, and you were willing to sign off on the adoption years ago. If that had happened, you wouldn't have received any support whatsoever. He is fighting you now because you are requesting the arrears support, money that you were perfectly willing to give up before.

You don't want to give it up now, but it's unclear why. Because you feel he shouldn't just be able to walk away?

Staying tied to him financially means you stay tied to him. That part has nothing to do with your daughter, who can call hem or not, be rejected or welcomed, regardless of her adoption status. The adoption is for you and your husband.

The ultimate question is, what is the best interest of your daughter here? And I think the best interest is an end to the conflict.

This is an ugly situation no matter how you slice it. But if you think the adoption is a bad idea now, then it was a bad idea years ago, and will be a bad idea in the future. So let it go and be clear about that and sue him for support.

If you want to offer him a deal, then offer it and keep it on the table. I'm sorry, but what you've done is snatched it away from him when he decided to take it. Yes, he decided in his own interests, not your daughter's. You already know that about him, you've known it for years.

Why should I just let him disappear?

Because he will continue to cause you hardship for as long as he is tied to your life.

[representingself]

Originally Posted by Mess

if the adoption had gone through years ago, she would still be curious, she would still want to make contact, and she could still do that with or without your approval.

Many adopted children make contact with their bio parents when they get older, with mixed results. There are no guarentees in life.

Adopting or not adopting won't change anything for your daughter. She will still have the same relationship you and your husband, and her bio-father will still be the same person, she won't have any different relationship with him either way.

Exactly.... thank you for putting words to the thoughts I couldn't find the words to express.

When I initially sought the adoption, I was ignorant enough to think that it would ALL be over. I thought that my daughter would see her step-father as her only father, and I believed that she wouldn't never need anything else.

At that time it was truly, all about me and I am ashamed to admit that. I wanted that man out of our lives forever, and I thought I had found a way to accomplish that.

What I failed to recognize then, (but have since realized) is that my feelings really have no bearing on this situation. Regardless of how I feel about him, he is, and always will be her father. And she will always be missing a part of herself.

Originally Posted by Mess

But the problem now is that he is asking for access?

No, he only threatened to take her by force, because he thought it would hurt me... I have since contacted his mother, and re-iterated my offer for access, and he still refuses. No explaination. He just ignores me.

I wish he would just go away... but the problem is that my daughter wants to see him... but he doesn't want to see her. it hurts/angers/frusturates, me that him and his family are hurting her, and there is nothing that I can do.

Originally Posted by Mess

And I realize I am over simplifying, but the situation is becoming over complicated. There are too many mixed motivations here, and you need to sort that out and prioritize.

You have provided for your child just fine for years, and you were willing to sign off on the adoption years ago. If that had happened, you wouldn't have received any support whatsoever. He is fighting you now because you are requesting the arrears support, money that you were perfectly willing to give up before.

You don't want to give it up now, but it's unclear why. Because you feel he shouldn't just be able to walk away?

Sure we have provided well for her... and I have given him multiple opportunities to gain some closure from me. I sought an adoption, and he refused, no explaination.

I told him I was going to take him back to court... he ignored me.

I have offered him access, and requested mediation multiple times... again, no response from him.

I have offered to settle, and drop the retroactive claim, and he refuses to acknowledge my offers.

Even now, if I agreed to the adoption, he would have to talk to me, and he wont.

Originally Posted by Mess

Staying tied to him financially means you stay tied to him. That part has nothing to do with your daughter, who can call hem or not, be rejected or welcomed, regardless of her adoption status. The adoption is for you and your husband.

Again, you are correct. She gains nothing from the adoption.

Originally Posted by Mess

The ultimate question is, what is the best interest of your daughter here? And I think the best interest is an end to the conflict.

Help me to understand how letting him completely abandon her is in her best interests? What does she gain by letting him sign off on his financial responsibility? Like you said... the adoption wont give her closure... if anything it will prove once and for all that her own father cared more about his child support than he cared about his child.

Originally Posted by Mess

This is an ugly situation no matter how you slice it. But if you think the adoption is a bad idea now, then it was a bad idea years ago, and will be a bad idea in the future. So let it go and be clear about that and sue him for support.

Again... I agree. It was a bad idea, and when I realized that it wouldn't accomplish anything, I took the option off the table.

Originally Posted by Mess

If you want to offer him a deal, then offer it and keep it on the table. I'm sorry, but what you've done is snatched it away from him when he decided to take it. Yes, he decided in his own interests, not your daughter's. You already know that about him, you've known it for years.
Because he will continue to cause you hardship for as long as he is tied to your life.

Keep in mind the adoption was offered almost 3 years ago. So I didn't really snatch it away.... he had YEARS before I finally went back to the court.

He didn't decide to take the offer until it was too late.... and he was given ample warning....

Isn't child support the "right of the child"?

Is she not as entitled to recieve it as any other child?

Is it not my responsibility to fight on her behalf, for what she is entitled to?

If I let him walk away from this, to save myself some aggravation, am I really doing what is best for my daughter?

Sure, it would be easier.... less confrontational... less conflict.... but would it really be the "right" decision?