Help finding the right words

[informedmom]

Our family consists of my boyfriend and I, my eight year old son and my bf's 12 year old son who lives with his mother. Although we see my bf's son on occasion, we are knee deep in a parent alienation situation that we are trying to handle.

We decided to take a family holiday somewhere south during March Break 2012. My bf mentioned the idea to his son and asked if he would like to come. At first, his son wanted to know where we were going and then said that he might be going away with his mom (which is often the response).

An email was sent to the mother requesting the time to take the son on a holiday. She said she would discuss it with the son and let us know in two days. Two days came and went so we decided to send her an email with an attached letter providing additional details of the trip. We also asked her to sign the letter agreeing that she will support the son's participation on the holiday (emotionally, not financially), and send him with a packed suitcase (she won't ever send clothes...we have to buy underwear and socks, etc for him if we ever get him overnight). We asked her to sign and make the letter available for pickup as we wanted to book the trip. We made it clear that if she couldn't sign the letter, SHE was making the decision for her son not to come.

She did not sign the letter. She said our demands were "outrageous" and that perhaps my bf "should spend more time with his son before he goes on holidays with us". She also accused us of inviting him so he could babysit my son (which has NEVER happened).

We are now two weeks later. We haven't seen my bf's son. Nothing has been mentioned about the trip. We have been granted a few hours tomorrow and we want to talk to him about it. Even stranger, my bf's ex emailed today wanting to know what OUR decision was regarding the trip as the son has been invited away over the March break (unlikely).

How do we talk to this boy about this without putting his mother down? She doesn't want him to go and desperately wants it to look like we didn't want him to go. We want him to understand that we very much wanted him there but couldn't play the game she wanted us to play.

Btw, this craziness has been going on for YEARS.

[Mess]

He's twelve. Whether he goes or not isn't up to him, it's up to his mother and father. The situation is different than when he's 14+, but for now, the parents decide.

If there have been problems up until now, frankly the father brought it on himself. He should have regular access, AT LEAST every other weekend and it shouldn't be negotiable, it shouldn't be up to the boy *(what about when he was 8, 9, 10?). There is no reason why he should not have seen the boy for two weeks.

If the mother has asked in writing what the decision is, then respond that the decision is that you will be picking up the boy the night before the trip and dropping him off the night after you get back. If she doesn't pack a bag, buy 2 pairs of jeans, some t-shirts, socks and underwear yourself.

If the father doesn't assert himself on his access time, he loses it. You already know this. He can't blame the mother for his own passivity on this.

If this sounds harsh, it's because me and dozens of other fathers on this board have worked our butts off and fought like crazy to maintain access and custody of our children. Your bf is being a doormat, and blaming it all on the mother only tells half the story.

I will say, I am going only by your description in this post, and I'm sure you will respond that it's not like that and the mother is the devil in disguise.

[informedmom]

Hi Mess. You are correct. My bf has not fought. He sought counselling, legal advice and has read every possible thing written about parent alienation. He is a good man but thought that fighting would cause pain to his son. Was it the right decision? Possibly not. I just love the man and want to help him move forward. Telling him that he is a doormat and judging his past decisions would not be very helpful.

[Mess]

He's co-operating with the mother whether you realize it or admit it. The aggressive-passive dynamic here is obvious.

It isn't just the aggressive person who is the bad guy. The passive person is the enabler.

Unless and untill your bf learns that nothing will change. The child is being hurt as much by the father's passivity as by the mother's aggression.

Falling back on "fighting will cause pain to the son" is poor rationalization. Not fighting for your child is telling your child that they aren't worth fighting for. This will affect the child's self-esteem for years to come. It is fundamental that the child needs to know they are not just important, but vital to the father. You don't achieve this with words, you achieve it with actions.

Whatever is happening right now didn't occur in a vacuum, it occurred because because of a pattern of behaviour that the father has been an active participant in.

I'm not expecting you to call him a doormat and that it will make everything better. I'm not that stupid. What I am expecting is that you will realize that the solution to this problem is not going to be easy, because it involves the father changing, and he has not been able to do that despite going through the drastic change of divorce and nearly losing his child. If that wasn't a motivator, what will be?

He cannot change the mother. He can only change himself. This absolutely fundamental. Without that, nothing is going to happen.

[momforever1956]

Mess,

It is quite impressive how you address the issue of blame. It is refreshing to see pro-active parents who don't look for blame but instead take ownership of a sitaution. Arguing and fighting is never good especially when children are involved but pointing fingers is just an excuse and another lame attempt of evading responsibility.
Interesting to watch what occurs with adult children. There is no custody issue and yet for some their contact and relationships with adult children just vanishes or is at a minimum when divorce occurs. Who's fault is it then?
Seems one parent is always blamed for the destruction of a realtionship when children are involved. Why dont we self -evaluate and look at our behaviour.
Believe me, if my boys didnt respond to me or call me or have contact----the post office would be backed up with cards, letters, their email accounts would be filled with letters, there would be no stopping me to be with them, share, see and love my children. NO--EXCUSES---NONE.

[winterwolf7]

I was a doormat to my controlling ex-wife when I was married for years. Despite that fact that since we separated I have grown and changed a lot and felt the "fog" lift from me to be a more active participant in my own life, she still treats me the same way and expects the same responses.

I'll admit I still have a soft spot for her and probably always will, but when I see how she talks to me and expects to react I'm pretty sickened by how I guess I used to really be. Now I have my own teeth VVVV and I'm not as afraid to use them