Having difficulty with dropping off

[Nadia]

Separated from ex-spouse since March 2007. We have been in and out of court numerous time and have a high-conflict relationship with very little co-parenting.

We have two children: a five year old and three year old.
We live about an hour away from the father's residence. Because of the distance it was agreed we would share the driving. I would drop them one way and his parents would bring them back to school the next day.

For the past two years or so, my Mother-in Law has been acting as Third Party in the pick up and drop offs.
This has been going well, because I get along with his parents, so there is no tension and simply friendly banter when we see each other.
Unfortunately, his parents went on a vacation and will be away for the next two months.

I was never informed of this. Arrived at the father's residence last week, to find the front door open but house in complete darkness. The children didn't want to go in. Their father turns up at the front door and yells "come in." I walk them up the drive way and steps to the front door. I explain to him that we need to have a third party. He starts yelling and screaming at me about how that is my responsibility and not his. I ask him not to scream in front of the children. Our daughter gets very upset and doesn't want me to leave. She tries to grab my leg and he pulls her away. I leave immediately.

The next drop off happens four days later, the exchange takes place at the local police station near his house. But I don't want to have to drag the children to the Police Station twice a week. Is there anything else anyone can recommend?

What can I do to support my five year old, so that drop off is not so upsetting? This started before the Grandmother went on vacation. She's been upset the last three times. I have no problem getting her in the car before we leave. We talk about all the exciting things she is going to do with her dad. She even had a picture she had made him to show. She had no problem with walking up the steps. Its the moment when I have to leave her that is upsetting. She's never had problems before. In fact couldn't get to Dad's house fast enough. Used to wave me goodbye and hug her dad.



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[billiechic]

Can you take a friend along for the drive? Someone your ex doesn't know or not know very well? It might make him a little nicer. It is likely that his horrible behaviour is contributing to your daiughter's reaction.

Do you know if she was doing this when her grandmother dropped her off to her dad before?

[dinkyface]

Very nasty. Hopefully that gets smoothed over quickly from your daughter's point of view.

Another suggestion.. in hindsight.. it might not have been the best idea to bring up the issue right then and there, since you know that there are continuing anger issues. Can you discuss it without your daughter present? Or use email?

[AtALoss]

I went through some of this with my ex and know how hard it can be. We can brush it off as adults but the children cant. I am not sure that a stranger might be a good idea as your ex can complain about that too. Would there be anyother family members that may assist? You mentioned the police, how do they fit in? I agree too that they may not be best in thate reaction by the children but on the other hand they are there if something bad were to happen. Give and take on that one. I know alot are hesitant and rightly so but try to talk to CAS as they can refer you to their family services section. They(most anyway) have a program set up where you can bring the kids to their centre, you do not see your ex and he picks up the kids. Then the reverse when they are returned to you. This program was set up for exactly your type of situation and may prove to be less stressful for the children.
Something to think about and cant hurt to call to see what they have available to you. Good Luck.

[Nadia]

Thanks for the advice. The only problem with taking someone with me, is that it is a lot to ask someone to do twice a week for an hour drive each way.

Our daughter started getting upset about me leaving before Grandma went away. Though it hasn't helped I don't think that change has set her off.

We looked into the idea of using a Family Centre in the past, but you have to have both parties consent and the children's father was set against it. I can put forward the proposal.

My lawyer has been advancing the idea of a parenting co-ordinator for some time, but unless I'm wrong, I think it requires consent from both sides.

[brigitte]

Hi Nadia,

I'm going thru similar problems with exchanges. In my situation, my boys father, his girlfriend and his family members would gain up for intimidation. It is awful. Every second weekend. My boys and I, have to go thru all this unnecessary "torture".

Fortunately, my last court appearance the judge "ordered" a child lawyer. The results was helpful, as now the father and I have a no contact relationship and I have full custody.

Here is what I found out so far that might help. Having an exchange center you need to have both parent agree and pay or have a judge "order" it. Also, depending on where you live it can take up to 3 months after both parent do the paper work and interview before you can use the exchange center. It appears that the ideal location for exchanges is at school or daycare. The other location, is in a public place like tim horton's, McDonald.... as long as you have people/strangers around.

Hope this helps and good luck.
Bri

[Nadia]

Thanks for the information.

You are absolutely correct about using Family Centres. It can take up to three months to complete the registration process and more importantly requires the consent of both parents.

In respect to public places. We have tried these before with some very negative outcomes. About two years ago we started using the local shopping mall, on each occasion my ex-husband became extremely frustrated about the fact that my daughter wanted to say goodbye with a hug. As far as he was concerned given that it was now 5pm he now had physical custody of the children and I was not allowed to touch them physically. He asked Mall security to get involved on two occasions for this very reason.

Then we tried the Grocery store (Fortinos) and that worked for a while, but stopped when he would no longer allow me to enter the Grocery store itself and insisted that the exchange should take place outside the doors.

We then tried to use the local police station. He used to be an auxiliary officer and is friendly with the officers who work at the station. Anyway, suffice to say, he had police officers involved on an at least two occasions. One was when I was putting mittens on my daughter, not happy with the physical contact, he alleged that he was being prevented from leaving with the children.

Then we tried third party pick up from my residence (we were living closer at that point). This worked ok, except he insisted on accompanying the third party. He would get very agitated if the Third Party entered the house to pick up the children and took longer then a minute to pick them up. There were one or two occasions where my son who was 6 months at the time, had soiled his diaper and needed it changed before the snow suit went on or my daughter desperately needed to use the bathroom. Given that it was the middle of winter, I would ask the third party (usually family that I knew), to come in out of the cold. Anyway, he'd be out there honking his horn.

This came to an end, when on one occasion, my ex-husband decided to get out of his vehicle, that he had parked behind mine on the drive way to go and have a friendly chat with the neighbors. My son had been picked up by the third party then and was out in the cold with him and his uncle. I had to get to an appointment. But my vehicle was locked in and I couldn't get out of my drive way. Asked him to remove his vehicle. An argument ensued, that led to physical assault.

I moved to a new neighborhood and until recently have had little direct contact with him. His mother and father have acted as third party and we've had no problems with pick up or drop off. That is until they went on vacation.

Now, we are back to using the police station. Not the nicest places for little children and I hate driving them out there twice a week. But I have no choice.

[Nadia]

Dinkyface wrote:

"Another suggestion.. in hindsight.. it might not have been the best idea to bring up the issue right then and there, since you know that there are continuing anger issues. Can you discuss it without your daughter present? Or use email?"

Thank you, Dinkyface , I think you make a very good point. I would have done better not to have brought up the issue of third party with the children present. Unfortunately, the lines of communication are very poor.

Email has been used in the past and has unfortunately resulted in lots of abusive emails from him, to the point that I simply refused to read them anymore. I just found them very upsetting. He then started sending letters and notes with the children. Again given the abusive nature, I stopped reading them and now have a box full of them.

We need to be able to communicate about the children in order to co-parent. That is exactly why, I have been encouraging the idea of a parenting co-ordinator. This I understand can only happen with the consent of both parties? My lawyer said there is no gaurantee that a court would order this.

Nadia

[billiechic]

Do you have a separtation Agreement. This does not sound like a case where there should be joint custody. Have you thought about applying for Sole?

[Nadia]

I have sole custody and my ex-husband has generous access. There is a police enforcement clause in the court order that allows police officers to enforce any access order in place. So, the access has to take place regularly. Which it has done, aside from a few missed midweek visits where the children have been ill with fever and vomiting. Even in those cases, police officers have been banging on the door and I have to provide medical documentation to justify a missed evening visit.