child alienation---please your help

[logicalvelocity]

91 Dr. Cox and Ms. Stephen shall keep each other informed at all times as to a telephone number where he/she may be reached.

92 Both parties are restrained from annoying, harassing or molesting the other or any member of the other's family.

93 Neither party shall denigrate the other or any member of the other's family in the presence of or within hearing distance of Nathan.

94 Through counsel, the parties shall arrange for a mutually agreeable location to pick up and deliver the child when the child is picked up and/or dropped off at a place other than school. This location shall be at a public place of interest to Nathan such as at Shopping Mall or restaurant such as McDonalds.

95 Should for any reason, Ms. Stephen seek to change the time spent by Nathan with his father, in any manner whatsoever and should Dr. Cox not consent, Dr. Cox shall be entitled to have all of the time made up within 7 days notwithstanding the schedule set out above.

96 Dr. Cox shall be referred to as "Dad" or "Daddy" by Ms. Stephen in the presence of and within hearing distance of Nathan. Ms. Stephen shall cause all other members of her household to recognize Dr. Cox as Nathan's father.

97 The parties may make submissions to me in writing within 30 days with respect to costs, should they be unable to agree.

Appeal allowed.

[logicalvelocity]

This case was further appealed in 2003 and can be found here

http://www.canlii.org/on/cas/onca/20...onca10838.html

[applepie]

Yes it sounds to me like the mother is taking her revenge against you via the children. It's very sad when people forget about the kids in pusuit of their own selfish aims. Continue to assure your children that you love them and counseling sounds like a great idea for the son.

[karmaseeker]

Originally Posted by brokendad

I moved out of the family home at the reccomendation of the OCL so that my spouse who had placed herself in hiding , with the aid of FACS , would move the children back in rather then a shelter. She elected to move in with "friends".It was not until the OCL disclosure suggesting that I should have sole custody did she move back home. I had already been living in my own home by this time. At first my son was very happ y to visit ,he was proud of his room , his trains , and the toy room I had made for him and his sister. We had a play area in the yard and friends up the street. Alarge play park was a mere 8 houses away.
But over the course of the summer , particularily after a judge put some sense to our order in respect to vistation did the trouble begin. My ex carries on at every exchange as if the children have just came home from there first military detail and we are only a few minutes across town. her attics telling them of how much she missed them , after a four hour visit are over the top at best. She totally ignores me , will answer no questions about the children .
picks them up a scurries inside locking the door vehind her. She won't let go of the children for a second goodbye and when the baby age two has been sleeping would rather I put her on the ground, signalling like a refferee ,rather then takde her direcltly from me . On those occassions when it looked like i might enter the front porch she has stood on the steps waving her arms, similar to an air traffic controller might at Pearson INternational. If you are laughing trust me it is not funny.
My son has become distant at best when he is with me ,"worrying about mommy" a thought I'm sure she has planted.Lately he has been telling me how his grandmother , mother and , friends of his mother do not like me.This would be humorous if it wasn't coming from a three year old little boy who hardly has the vocabulary and speech to come up with such thoughts.
His stuttering has worsened, although his free speech eg. identifying pictures from flash cards seems to be normal, maybe even advanced for his age.
It is a constant struggle to get him to focus on us rather then his idol the TV.
Although I have asked my ex to call at the dinner hour (5pm) when I have weekend visitation , she insists on calling at 7pm , his bed time, and a provision of our court order, . Unfortuneately whatever she says cranks him up to the point that it will be 10pm before he goes to sleep , and usually in tears. Obviously this makes for a fun wow visit.
I'm suggesting that not only is he having trouble with the transition of the divorce/seperation but quite possibly being subtley manipulated by his mother in what is amounting to a major problem for the two of us.
I love my son passionately, I would give my life for him at a moments notice and I know I'm a ggod father. But that is not enough when your son has his arms around you as on Christmas day and says Daddy , I don't love you. I laughed it off and said Erik who would say such a silly thing about you and daddy.His reply " Auntie Cathy" ...my ex's best friend.
So gang I need your help. Is alienation taking place or am I just stressed out and over sensitive. I am going to partake in some counselling for Erik starting in the next few week ( and myself ) but I think the problem is deeper then this and I shudder at the consequences as most likely my ex and her friends will not give up easily.

Brokendad

Where are you now? What has come about since you posted this?

[wretchedotis]

I've lived through some of the same things.
The only consolation I can give you is that should you maintain the 'stand-up' attitude you seem to have - it will all work out in the end. Do your very best by your son, and speak only positively of his mother. At only 3 he is easily swayed by Mom or Dad's emotions. Mom may not even have the wherewithall to understand what she is doing. But let me tell you - my boy is turning 6 now... and he knows where the real problem is. He asks why I'm not allowed at Moms house, but his Mom is allowed at our house. He asks why Moms new husband tells him that he doesn't like me, and asks if I like him. My answer is "of course I do - he is part of your extended family and welcome here any time".

He's maybe still a little young to totally get it. But he's asking the right questions, isn't he? Do your best by him - and he will know on his own in time.

[Dadof2GandB]

I feel that I am about to be doing the same. How can a woman deny me access to my son without evidence of any wrong doing. Letter from her counsel to mine advising that she's denying any and all access. Nothing mentioned about my son's best interest. He is 10 months old, and his eyes always lit up, huge smiles when I picked him up for access during the times she "dictated". She spoke a different language to him when I picked him up and dropped him off, lies to her friends and has several women present at pick ups and drop offs, thus creating herself as the perfect victim. My two daughters(from a previous relationship) have not been informed as of yet that they will not be able to see their brother. They loved visiting with him, and enjoyed our time together. Why can this happen. Is Court the only way I can get something done about this? Can her past Psychiatrists visits be entered into court? I have recorded EVERY pick up and drop off because I do not trust her, can they be entered? Statements from her friends that tell me they do not agree with what she's doing, and says that she's not listening to them. My Ex has advised that she would stand up for me in court in regards to me being an amazing Dad, my daughters are doing fantastic, and my ex and I are getting along great. However this past relationship, she has mental issues that seem to be dismissed and ignored by those around her. I am going to do whatever I can to protect my son. That means Full custody. The parental alienation factor I know will be an issue, and a concern. He is the only person she can force to love her, until he sees and feels what she truly has done when he gets older. I am hurting inside that she would do this to him.
Any assistance or input would be appreciated.

[karmaseeker]

Originally Posted by Dadof2GandB

I feel that I am about to be doing the same. How can a woman deny me access to my son without evidence of any wrong doing. Letter from her counsel to mine advising that she's denying any and all access. Nothing mentioned about my son's best interest. He is 10 months old, and his eyes always lit up, huge smiles when I picked him up for access during the times she "dictated". She spoke a different language to him when I picked him up and dropped him off, lies to her friends and has several women present at pick ups and drop offs, thus creating herself as the perfect victim. My two daughters(from a previous relationship) have not been informed as of yet that they will not be able to see their brother. They loved visiting with him, and enjoyed our time together. Why can this happen. Is Court the only way I can get something done about this? Can her past Psychiatrists visits be entered into court? I have recorded EVERY pick up and drop off because I do not trust her, can they be entered? Statements from her friends that tell me they do not agree with what she's doing, and says that she's not listening to them. My Ex has advised that she would stand up for me in court in regards to me being an amazing Dad, my daughters are doing fantastic, and my ex and I are getting along great. However this past relationship, she has mental issues that seem to be dismissed and ignored by those around her. I am going to do whatever I can to protect my son. That means Full custody. The parental alienation factor I know will be an issue, and a concern. He is the only person she can force to love her, until he sees and feels what she truly has done when he gets older. I am hurting inside that she would do this to him.
Any assistance or input would be appreciated.

Document EVERYTHING.

Get your lawyer to get the ball rolling ASAP. It is slow moving so you will have to get your application for joint custody or sole custody moving as the more time that passes the more status quo is established.

Push for an emergency motion for access. Push for a motion for OCL involvment or if you have the money and seriously consider her to be mentally unstable go for a section 30 assessment. This is pricey but very useful. Info here : Custody and Access Evaluations Durham region Ajax Whitby Pickering Oshawa Scarborough Toronto Etobicoke Richmond Hill Cobourg, Belleville, Hamiliton Bruce Bellevile Ontario child divorce . We are waiting for this ourselves but might be the saving grace for us as we are in the same boat.

WE learned the hard way that there is no point negotiating back and forth with someone who is unreasonable. It just wasted letters, money, and time. Keep on the table at any time you are willing to do arbitration to show you are eager to settle. I doubt she'll agree to this.

READ READ READ and Prepare!

Good luck.