Am I wasting my time??

[jlalex]

For once one of my question is actually about me and not CL husband..lol

My ex husband and I have two sons together ages 10 and 14. For the past few months the eldests schooling has been a big challenge, and really it has always been somewhat of a challenge..having to nag incessently about homework, blah grades and although he has been deemed gifted, he has never put much effort into school. Though these past couple of months have been paticularly stressful, in fact I received his most recent report card last week and he is failing two of his four courses, *just* passed one and a c- on another.

Last year his father expressed a desire to have our eldest son come live with him. For several reasons I was not comfortable with the idea. Although he shows up every other weekend he doesn't take much of an active role in the childrens lives in regards to schooling or discipline. We talked about it and I asked that before he asks me to consider having our eldest move in with him he start being an involved parent. Up until then he didn't even know the names of the kids schools let alone anything else that was going on. He was just more of a fun time Dad.

Since he expressed a desire to become more involved I've made sure to include him in decisions regarding the kids, homework and projects, school events you name it. I've made every effort to draw him in. I've had little to no success.

When I showed him our eldest sons report card when he was here to take them this weekend for the usual visit, he heard me out, what I thought we might do to try to recitify this, asked his opinion and advice ( after all I've never been a 14 yr old boy and I do value his experience that he can bring to the table) and asked what day would be best for him to attend parent teacher interviews etc...he did seem somewhat disturbed by the report card and I had hoped he might talk to our son in an effort to get him on the straight and narrow.

Unfortunately my son informed me that Dad said he didn't want to talk about it and he just wanted to have fun this weekend. I have to say this really makes me mad, I've been pulling my hair out for months trying my damndest to get through to our son, I have spent countless hours talking to his Dad about these problems only to find out that he would rather not talk about it because he just wants to have fun!!

I understand that there is a time limit of sorts on the time they have together, and I get that he wants the kids to walk away with positive and happy memories of their time together, but am I off here feeling like he needs to step up and start getting involved?

I would love to just ignore a lot of these problems and just have fun but I feel my responsibility as a parent far outweighs my desire of living a happy tra-la-la life with no consequences and everyone just has fun...but I can't see how I would be doing my kids any favours by acting that way.

I've invited him countless times to pick up the kids whenever he likes, take extra weekends, take them to the library to do homework..whatever I can think of. But I get the distinct feeling I'm running in a giant hamster wheel and getting no where.

I don't know if it is worth it to try and convince him to get more involved or just to stop trying and if he wants to know something he can ask. I do feel somewhat resentful that I'm the 'bad guy' and he's the super fun guy in a land where chores and homework doesn't exist and no one is held accountable.

I know for a lot of guys out there this may be coloured with the sounds of the controlling CP, and I understand that end of it too as my CL is at the other end of the spectrum being the NCP..but honestly I only want him involved, and this isn't a big b*tch and whine fest about a mean ol' Dad. I have always believed that divorced parents don't have to be the best of friends who hold hands, have group hugs while singing koom-bi-ya ( pardon the spelling..lol) Heck you don't even have to like each other, you just need to share the same goal of wanting the best for your kids.

Sorry for the rant..I guess I'm a little fed up...any words of wisdom or advice are always welcome...am I wasting my time??

thanks

[logicalvelocity]

jlalex,

I posted this in another thread - Learned information from an attended 10 session parenting class this past year. All I can say is the parenting workshop was great and I would definitely do it again!

It appears you ex is not too intersted in being more than the fun parent.

Something that may be useful and worth consideration

Quotes from the recent "Parenting Your Teen" course I attended:


Normal Teenage Behaviour

• Putting off chores,
• Doing chores good enough to just get by,
• Not wanting to do assignments for the family,
• Enjoying doing the same chores for other families,
• Maintaining an unkept room,
• Putting off homework,
• Making an occasional bad grade,
• Having infrequent trouble with one of his/her teachers,
• Hating things she/he loved yesterday,
• Not having a career selected,
• Changing his/her mind often about whether to go to college or not,
• Spending much of his/her money carelessly,
• Not being satisfied with what parents are providing,
• Going through a stage of being ashamed of parents,
• Teasing brothers and sisters to death,
• Demanding more Independence by telling how good other kids have it,
• Not wanting to go to church,
• Not remembering to thank people who give them gifts.

...

"How Serious Is It?"

MBA's - Minor But Aggravating. It's important to keep in mind that Parent's level of aggravation about a problem is not always a measure of the seriousness of that problem. Ask yourself the question "Who is it going to Harm?"

Examples of things considered MBA's:

Phone - long, pointless, and apparently stupid conversations between teens over the phone are normal.

Clothes and appearance - Dr. Phelan solution is to "let them wear anything that the school will let them in the door with (Phelan)

Messy room - An appropriate solution would be to close their door, or just don't look.

...

When something about your teen is bothering you, it's a good idea to stop and think before doing anything. You should ask yourself two questions:

a)Does this problem need my attention?
b)If so, how involved should I get?


Phelan [1.] outlines four basic roles a parent can consider when responding to or evaluating an adolescent's problem. They are:

a) Observer
b) Advisor
c) Negotiator
d) Director

When deciding which role is appropriate, ask yourself the following questions:

a) How is your child in general?
b) How good is your relationship?
c) Your state of mind?
d) How serious is the problem?

Stay out of their problem unless it's absolutely necessary that you get involved. You'll just cause conflict. Part of the problem will be the difference of opinion as to what role you should take. Deciding what role is appropriate while being aware of which role your teen wants you to take.

Try to decide which role is the right one for you and stick with it. Remember, you are the boss.

Observer - Do nothing. Observe how they handle the problem and do some sympathetic listening. Let the teen handle it. Don't give unwanted advice - it's irritating. "Grin and Bear it."

Advisor - You are still only a consultant to the child, which means you are not using power and the adolescent has the right to reject your advice. Remember - you probably weren't hired for the job. When unasked for wisdom comes out of the blue, things are double rough. The response is very likely to be irritation and absolutely non receptiveness to whatever you are trying to say. The teen may become standoffish.

solution: do something weird! Go out somewhere with teen to talk things over. It's fun, and the teen knows your serious. Write out your thoughts - no "tone of voice" included.

**Remember - "Advice is cheap and rarely followed."

Negotiator - Negotiating is also a statement that you feel it is important that you be involved, because you think the problem is serious, or perhaps because it affects other family members. But negotiating is saying that you are willing to bargain.

**Remember:

a) Agree to negotiate.
b) Pick a good place and time to talk.
c) Define the problem
d) Let's bargain.

Director - In the role as director, it is your responsibility to take charge when the problem is serious enough (like drugs) or interferes directly with your life (Loud music)

FOUR CARDINAL SINS

1) Spontaneous Problem Discussions - The odds that the adolescent is motivated to discuss this unpleasant subject at that very moment are about zero. SPD almost increases irritability and decreases cooperation. Solution: make an appointment with your adolescent to discuss a problem. "I'm concerned about your marks in science. When is a good time for us to sit and talk about this?

2) Nagging - "a set of repetitive, often hostile, verbal reminders about something that one person wants to see accomplished. It is usually directed at a second person who does not share the first person's enthusiasm for the project." (Phelan 1993). Nagging just produces friction. Solution: make an appointment.

3) Insight Transplants - "The Parental Lecture." What the parent is really thinking - or hoping - goes something like this: "I will take this wonderful insight I have learned about life, put it into two words, and send it through the airwaves. It will enter my child's ears and proceed to his brain where it will take root, flower, and subsequently generate new and more productive behaviour." (Phelan 1993).

4) Arguing - Arguing usually results in battle. Solution: Don't start a conversation that is bound to go nowhere. Make an appointment. Don't insist on having the last word. If you do need to say something, simply say it directly and succinctly, and then shut up or leave, don't stick around to counter ridiculous arguments from your teen.

[1.] Thomas W. Phelan Phd. http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&sear...0Phelan&page=1

Maybe in your area they may have such a parenting course available.

lv

[sufferer]

Yes jalex,you are wasting your time.The kind of effort you are putting to bang your head against a wall, put the same on your kids and you will see the results.
You were awarded the custody and Mr honourable Judge must have taken the decision after going through your case deeply.Don't think you can't handle this situation alone.You can do it.Be strong and have faith in God.Talk to your son and his teacher too,schedule extra help etc.Be calm, supportive and encourage him.

[jlalex]

Thank you both, you know I was a teenager not *that* long ago yet I still have a hard time understanding his motivations or lack there of as the case may be.

My son and myself as well as his step father have sat down and have come up with a 'contract' of sorts, which we negotiated together. I'm hoping that as he has had input of what he feel he can commit to on a daily basis and what rewards and or consequenses will result if he does or doesn't remember to do them he be more likely to follow through. I don't want to nag him to death, but sometimes it feels like the only thing left to do.

I guess on the scale of problems your kids can have this isn't the worst, but the very bad grades and the couple of times he has skipped school has me worried, I don't want him to do something that he will have a hard time rectifying.

LV I will definitely check out that link, and I would love to attend parenting workshops. I also picked up the book 'Now I Know Why Tigers Eat Their Young - Surviving the new generation of teenagers' by Peter Marshell, its quite funny as well as informative, after just reading the first couple of chapters I'm already feeling much relieved that its not as bad as it looks. Definitely worth a look for any parent.

In regards to my ex, should I tell him that I'm simply not going to go out of my way to involve him any further and if he wants to know he can ask...or just not say anything and move on?

[logicalvelocity]

jlalex,

I was a teenager not *that* long ago yet I still have a hard time understanding his motivations or lack there of as the case may be.

I hear you on that with myself! One of the biggest problems for me was letting go.

My son and myself as well as his step father have sat down and have come up with a 'contract' of sorts, which we negotiated together. I'm hoping that as he has had input of what he feel he can commit to on a daily basis and what rewards and or consequenses will result if he does or doesn't remember to do them he be more likely to follow through. I don't want to nag him to death, but sometimes it feels like the only thing left to do.

Ahhh, the negotiator role! Nagging doesn't work, I've tried that and just makes things frustrating as it would just go in one ear and out the other in regards to my child. I use an incentive based plan or reward. I still give little reminders now and then and make inquiries to ensure they are on track.

I guess on the scale of problems your kids can have this isn't the worst, but the very bad grades and the couple of times he has skipped school has me worried, I don't want him to do something that he will have a hard time rectifying.

I haven't been faced with skipping school, knock on wood! I did face a trip to the school to pick up my child as they received a one day suspension for acting in self defense. I was totally surprised by such conduct and first time for such! To my understanding, the ramifications was that the other child required some dental work due to a chipped tooth. In hindsight I may of been liable under the Parental Responsibility Act.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/S...sh/00p04_e.htm

LV I will definitely check out that link, and I would love to attend parenting workshops. I also picked up the book 'Now I Know Why Tigers Eat Their Young - Surviving the new generation of teenagers' by Peter Marshell, its quite funny as well as informative, after just reading the first couple of chapters I'm already feeling much relieved that its not as bad as it looks. Definitely worth a look for any parent.

It appears to be a good book. I'm going to look into it further. Sometimes the public library also has parenting videos available on the subject or employee assistance programs through employers.

In regards to my ex, should I tell him that I'm simply not going to go out of my way to involve him any further and if he wants to know he can ask...or just not say anything and move on?

If it was me, I would keep them informed, and let them make their own initiative to contact the relevant professional to discuss the matter. This way they can never say that you didn't inform them.


lv

[jlalex]

You raise a good point, which is why I asked, part of me just wants to wash my hands of him and let him take the initiative to get involved, if he asks I'll answer but otherwise no hour long conversations and attempts to draw him in.

One other thing I've been tossing around, my eldest has a key which he uses when he comes home from school on days that I am working ( I work shift work, 5 days or nights on, 5 days off) and on occasion when friday pick up is when I'm working ( once a month) I've let Dad pick up the kids and my son locks up when they go. Problem is that son has forgotten to lock up on more than one occasion leaving the house open for anyone who wanted to come in. Or he forgets his key at his Dads ( he lives an hour away). I've repeatedly asked Dad to remind son both on locking the doors and remember the key when they come home. As well back packs have been forgotten which is a pain when its time to go to school.

I'm thinking of telling Dad he will just have to wait til either myself of or CL husband are home before he can pick up the kids for weekend visits so one of us will be there to collect the key and bags to make sure they're here come Monday morning. I've tried to be flexible as his shift end at 3 pm and would have to wait about an hour ninety minutes at most..but at what expense am I to flexible?

Each time I've talked to him about this he apologizes..but it still happens..

[Duped]

Take the sweetest fruit, pound it down and all you will get is sour grapes.

I have lived this exact situation, complaining means nothing, neither the teenager or the weekend dad will step up, choices were made and this is the result you have. The choice to get the grades up are yours alone, the teenager is in to social studies more than anything else and is most likely very happy that fun dad is just that. Fun dad is not going to be interested in spoiling fun with serious stuff when serious stuff is a week thing not a weekend thing. Not that you should do this but I read somewhere that many parents have been found to be doing their childrens homework to get their marks up. Silly, but makes the lack of quality workmanship scream into focus.

Try to do your best but don't beat yourself up over it, and most definately don't force the issue on the fun time with fun dad.

Duped