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Parenting Issues This forum is for discussing any of the parenting issues involved in your divorce, including parenting of step-children.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2017, 01:22 AM
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CAS and police are in agreement with what I have done. Ex is too much of a cheapskate to spend the money on a PI. So far itís worked beautifully and the kids and I feel more secure this way. The point is that the judges really donít care one way or the other if you reveal your address or not as long as the other partyís access rights continue unharmed by it. What I have learned about family law is that judges and lawyers try to misrepresent the law to use it to intimidate you into doing what they want. A lawyer may tell you the custodial parent is supposed to reveal their address but they can not force you to.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2017, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
A lawyer may tell you the custodial parent is supposed to reveal their address but they can not force you to.
A lawyer no. However a judge can compel you.

For those that are trying to rationalize not providing your address to the ex as reasonable, feel free to try and provide that rationalization to a judge should you be required to because the ex denied access. I will simply put this one down to "play stupid games, win stupid prizes".
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2017, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
A lawyer no. However a judge can compel you.

For those that are trying to rationalize not providing your address to the ex as reasonable, feel free to try and provide that rationalization to a judge should you be required to because the ex denied access. I will simply put this one down to "play stupid games, win stupid prizes".
Good look trying to find your way out of contempt for denying access on the basis of not being given other parent's address unless your order states specifically that they must do that. Yes, it would seem like much a simple solution - provide your address and get access, but custodial parent's can't be allowed to jerk you around like that, and access parents should not stand by it. If you have joint-custody, then share. Sole custody, don't and file contempt motion to restore your access. There is chance a judge may ask you to share your address, however - but must give compelling reasons as to why, and that can be appealed.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2017, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
What I have learned about family law is that judges and lawyers try to misrepresent the law to use it to intimidate you into doing what they want.
This isn't only an issue with Family Law. I have seen it in other areas of the law in Canada. It's rather that judges and lawyers like to misrepresent (or manipulate) the facts and the laws in order for them see what they want to see be the end result. It is better known as bias and corruption.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2017, 05:12 PM
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Hammerdad.a judge can not compel you to give your address. Itís not against any law to keep it private. And as in my case doing so has in no way impeded my exís supervised acccess which he chooses not to exercise. Denial of your address and denial of access are two separate things which do not automatically go together. The other parent does not have to know your address in order to exercise their access. Especially when access pick up and drop off are not at the custodial parents place of residence.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2017, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
Hammerdad.a judge can not compel you to give your address. Itís not against any law to keep it private. And as in my case doing so has in no way impeded my exís supervised acccess which he chooses not to exercise. Denial of your address and denial of access are two separate things which do not automatically go together. The other parent does not have to know your address in order to exercise their access. Especially when access pick up and drop off are not at the custodial parents place of residence.
Bad attitude to have as custodial parent. You are not god. You're a parent, just as is the so called "access parent".

A judge can compel you. Here is a Judge compelling mom to give address to dad:

Quote:
(c) provide Mr. Goulding with her home address and a telephone number at which Mr. Goulding can reach Marissa and to which he can have letters or packages delivered and shall notify Mr. Goulding of any change in either;
Goulding, Johnny v. Goulding, Dawn, 2008 NLTD 124 (CanLII)

http://canlii.ca/t/1zcn3

And if you are going to make that whole, "but that is British Columbia" or "Nova Scotia" court non sense, then here is one from Ontario:

Quote:
2.10 The parties shall keep each other informed about their residential address, telephone number and e-mail address and shall notify the other party within 24 hours of any changes.
Szakacs v. Clarke, 2014 ONSC 7487 (CanLII)

http://canlii.ca/t/gfs1j

Last edited by trinton; 11-20-2017 at 05:45 PM.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2017, 06:33 PM
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Again, the judges can write ANYTHING they want in a court order but it will not necessarily yield the results or compliance they are looking for. My ex is able to call his kids on my cell. He has a post office box he can deliver cards and letters too. The older kids have their own cell numbers but refuse to give them to him. The youngest has an iPod he can face time with his dad but again refuses to do so. All the kids are thrilled he does not have our address. None of the judges we have been before have cared that he does not have our address. Each situation has its own unique set of circumstances. My ex is not a normal father. He is missing a large chunk of his brain from an accident and will never be fully functional again.
I do feel sorry for him at times but I have to look at reality and weigh the risks and benifits of everything I do. For the kids and myself which includes safety.
You are wrong in that the courts can not compel you to do anything. They can write orders and threaten you with contempt. They can use strong coercion but in the end they can not force you to do anything. You have a choice. You can defy them and take the resultant consequences ( or lack thereof). You have to pick your battles wisely and decide which hill is worth dying on. But the bottom line is they can not force you to do anything against your will.
Problem with family law is that the rules keep changing and how they are applied to a previous case may have no bearing as to how they are applied to your case. Everybodyís a liar and Iím talking about the judges, both lawyers, OCL, assessors, everybody... and that is why you must know where you willing to make a stand. Pick the one or two issues that matter and stick to your guns.


As for the above mentioned case law it does not apply to my situation because the judges choose to ignore my exís request for my address. Tommorow they may apply it. I may then be found in contempt of the heinous crime of not providing an address but I doubt it. They can not find me in contempt of denying access as it can still occur ( he chooses not to exercise it).

To the OP : each situation is unique. You may never be requested to give your address so long as the ex can contact the kids by cell and send them letters or gifts to some address ( relatives, P.O. box, etc). Apparently in some cases judges do order addresses to be revealed ( see above case law) and in some cases they donít ( my case for example).
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2017, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
Bad attitude to have as custodial parent. You are not god. You're a parent, just as is the so called "access parent".

A judge can compel you. Here is a Judge compelling mom to give address to dad:



Goulding, Johnny v. Goulding, Dawn, 2008 NLTD 124 (CanLII)

http://canlii.ca/t/1zcn3

And if you are going to make that whole, "but that is British Columbia" or "Nova Scotia" court non sense, then here is one from Ontario:



Szakacs v. Clarke, 2014 ONSC 7487 (CanLII)

http://canlii.ca/t/gfs1j


I agree with Stillbreathing. Family Law judges tend to write whatever they want in their orders. I several unenforceable orders in my judgement that aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

Correct me if I am wrong here, as I am definitely no expert... Judges are to interpret the law, not create laws. Does the divorce act, or any other relevant act or law state, or even imply, that a parent must know the address of the other parent? If you can't find a supporting law to base those decisions on, would it likely stand up to an appeal should someone do so?

Other than convenience, or just plain being nosy, what possible real reason of any actual importance, is there for someone to need to know the address of where the kids are at when with another parent?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2017, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soiled View Post
Other than convenience, or just plain being nosy, what possible real reason of any actual importance, is there for someone to need to know the address of where the kids are at when with another parent?
1. to know where you children live. You can research crime rates and such for that area.

2. to send gifts, etc.

3. to pick up / drop off if exchange needs to occur there

4. to be nosy.


I agree with you, there should be a standard framework / parenting plan that is used for seperated parents. Regardless, If you don't comply with the judge order, then you can be found in contempt.

Same thing with being ordered to do all the driving, you can not do it, but you can be found in contempt. That won't make you do it, however, you'll just continue to not do it. That is the good thing about being a human and not a slave.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2017, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnelight View Post
1. to know where you children live. You can research crime rates and such for that area.

2. to send gifts, etc.

3. to pick up / drop off if exchange needs to occur there

4. to be nosy.
1 - Falls under the category of Nosy. Highly unlikely to change anything even if its a high crime rate area.

2 - That's just a convenience. Gifts can be given during your own time.

3 - Nosy, and also one of those endless 'what if' games that can be played. Nearly anything can be justified or seem reasonable through enough 'what if' scenarios. Exchange is already dictated to be elsewhere.

IMO if you think you need to know the address of the other parent, or are viewing it as a right to know it, you have a control issue, as knowing it or not knowing it changes nothing for you.
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