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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 11-22-2016, 07:54 PM
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Default When one parent doesn't want 50/50 due to financial reasons

The other parent called me a few weeks ago and stated that the reason she keeps backing out of the agreements we make for 50/50 shared parenting time (I agreed to her having legal custody with 3 pages worth of restrictions) is because of financial reasons. She is currently (for the last 11 years) on welfare and she obviously receives child tax benefit. She stated that she believes her welfare will decrease and that she will only get half the child tax benefit and she does not want to have to get a job and therefore wants to agree to her having majority of the time on paper and we make a separate agreement otherwise. THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN, I will not play those games however I do record all interactions with the other parent as she has accused me of being abusive towards her (usually in a hissy fit when I don't give in to her demands) and want to keep proof that I do not interact with her unless I have to and all interactions are polite.

Can this help me in my case? Can I use this as evidence if we ever get to the trial? She is obviously not looking at the children best interest (50/50 with regular contact with both parents) and only looking for her financial interests.
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Old 11-23-2016, 02:20 AM
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I have seen cases where judges pretty much agree to give the mom full custody specifically so they can get more money. They state it EXPLICITLY. Most of the time they do it without stating the reason.

Your ex sounds like an idiot so most likely when you cross-examine her you will has her questions like this.

Is A a good father?

Will A ensure kids are fed, taken care, homework done and all the other needs?

etc....

Do you tink kids should have a meaningful equal relationship with both parents?

..

so why don't you want shared custody?

....

(Then you ask leasding questions)
Isn't it true we had a discussion (of which I have the recording) that you explained you don't want shared custody because of x,y,z financial reasons?

(You don't need to even file them or put them in evidence, she just needs to THINK you can do it).

Or if you really think she has the balls to deny it, then you get a stenographer to transcribe the recordings and if she denies ask the judge for permission to file them into evidence along with the audio recording.
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:38 AM
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I don't know how it works in QC, but here in Ontario the judge won't listen to her argument that the child doesn't deserve a 50/50 relationship because she's on Welfare and needs $$. Please say you have that in writing or recorded.

The child deserves "Maximum Contact" with both parents, regardless of money or how lazy one parent is.

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...eration-18320/

The "Maximum Contact Principle" will serve you and your child well. Good luck in your future 50/50 relationship with your child. If that's your ex's only argument you've already got it buddy.
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Old 11-23-2016, 10:32 AM
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Why is she on Welfare....and for 11 yrs! How old are the children?

Offer to take the kids for extra time while she finds a job!
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:41 AM
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LF32 - We are in Ontario. I have it recorded (I record all phone calls/pick ups/drop offs. We were never married to the divorce act does not protect me, however I am still looking at cases where the maximum contract principle may still apply.

I actually have an almost 50/50 relationship now and had my kids living with me from July 2014-July 2015. I served the paperwork for 50/50 since they lived with me I figured it was reasonable (other parent didn't have an apartment and was couch surfing, seeing the kids EOW however retained custody). As soon as I served her, she took the kids back, brought them to her friends couch to sleep on, started a go fund me account saying I am trying to steal HER kids and emergency motion did nothing because she had custody. Yes I have all this documented and screen shots of the Go Fund Me. Now I got a temp order for Thursday from 5:30-Friday at school and Friday at 6pm until Sunday at 1pm or 7pm alternating weekends. As the kids need both parents, I want to settle on a 50/50 schedule.

Her argument changes every time she talks based on who she is talking to but I feel this recording can atleast give me some help in obtaining a final 50/50 order.

good_mom - She is on welfare because she doesn't want to work. The kids are 12, 11 and 8 (Our 8 y/o came when we decided to try to work things out, didn't last long) I had the kids for a year for her to find a job and she didn't, instead she spent the time frauding welfare and sleeping on couches. I have come to terms with her never finding a job. She worked at Burger King for a month a few years back but quit because "it was too stressful". The OCL sees her being on welfare as a good thing as she is home for the kids and doesn't require babysitting and therefore felt the kids should be with her furthering her idea that welfare is where she wants to be. It is frustrating when I am paying for all extra curricular activities (competitive sports), all school fees, all school supplies, ect. and her reasoning for not being able to contribute is welfare won't cover it. Either way now I have proof as to why she wants the kids and man does it feel good!
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
I have seen cases where judges pretty much agree to give the mom full custody specifically so they can get more money. They state it EXPLICITLY. Most of the time they do it without stating the reason.

Your ex sounds like an idiot so most likely when you cross-examine her you will has her questions like this.

Is A a good father?

Will A ensure kids are fed, taken care, homework done and all the other needs?

etc....

Do you tink kids should have a meaningful equal relationship with both parents?

..

so why don't you want shared custody?

....

(Then you ask leasding questions)
Isn't it true we had a discussion (of which I have the recording) that you explained you don't want shared custody because of x,y,z financial reasons?

(You don't need to even file them or put them in evidence, she just needs to THINK you can do it).

Or if you really think she has the balls to deny it, then you get a stenographer to transcribe the recordings and if she denies ask the judge for permission to file them into evidence along with the audio recording.


Her answers will be as follows:

Is A a good father: No
Does A ensure the kids are fed: No they are hungry when they come home at 4pm after having a big lunch and snack as they are growing boys so they can't be fed.
Does A help with homework: No, I won't send homework over to his house because i don't think he will do it.
Does A take care of their needs? Not as well as I can.
Should the kids have a meaningful relationship with A: They can do so EOW
Why don't you want to share custody: A and I don't agree on anything and he wants to control me so it isn't a good idea.

Oh wait this is everything she has already told the OCL and her lawyer and they eat it up. She actually believes that I shouldn't be around the kids although the OCL did confirm she has severe mental health issues, right before saying she deserves full custody.
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:03 PM
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Then you follow with additional questions: why do you feel he wont do homework? How do you know he hasnt fed the kids, did they tell you this? When you feed them dinner do you give them a bed time snack too?

Think of all the answers she will give and how you can follow them with a question. Figure out what you want to hear from her and go from there. The questions will write themselves.
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:45 PM
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Then you dig deeper, have the kids lost weight? Are their grades bad, how did they do on that last exam etc...
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
(I agreed to her having legal custody with 3 pages worth of restrictions) is because of financial reasons.
I guess I don't have to tell you what a grotesque agreement that was, but I will anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckles1234 View Post
She is currently (for the last 11 years) on welfare and she obviously receives child tax benefit.
11 years on Welfare and couch surfing? What's her major disability? Sounds like there could be some significant mental health issues. Her lifestyle is unhealthy and unstable for any child. No child should have to change residences every few months to sleep on a couch somewhere. If she's getting Welfare and possibly disability benefits then why not just live in low income housing? My ex pays a few hundred rent, all utilities included, Are there any addiction issues?

Quote:
Oh wait this is everything she has already told the OCL and her lawyer and they eat it up. She actually believes that I shouldn't be around the kids although the OCL did confirm she has severe mental health issues,
Let her tell her lawyer and OCL whatever she wants. Her eyes are on the prize and she's in attack mode, or so it would seem.
So you have an OCL report officially stating that she has "severe" mental problems? Has there ever been any CAS involvement with all this couch surfing, etc? I'm not understanding how she ended up with full custody.
Quote:
she has accused me of being abusive towards her
Abusive in what way? Any records or police involvement throughout your
relationship? Can she prove any form of abuse with texts, recordings, etc?

Quote:
The OCL sees her being on welfare as a good thing as she is home for the kids and doesn't require babysitting and therefore felt the kids should be with her furthering her idea that welfare is where she wants to be.
That sounds about right.

I also agree with Link's about destroying her credibility and getting it documented, while meeting the best interests test. You already have more stability and that's half the battle. Just don't start couch surfing any time soon.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
I guess I don't have to tell you what a grotesque agreement that was, but I will anyways.

11 years on Welfare and couch surfing? What's her major disability? Sounds like there could be some significant mental health issues. Her lifestyle is unhealthy and unstable for any child. No child should have to change residences every few months to sleep on a couch somewhere. If she's getting Welfare and possibly disability benefits then why not just live in low income housing? My ex pays a few hundred rent, all utilities included, Are there any addiction issues?


Let her tell her lawyer and OCL whatever she wants. Her eyes are on the prize and she's in attack mode, or so it would seem.
So you have an OCL report officially stating that she has "severe" mental problems? Has there ever been any CAS involvement with all this couch surfing, etc? I'm not understanding how she ended up with full custody.

Abusive in what way? Any records or police involvement throughout your
relationship? Can she prove any form of abuse with texts, recordings, etc?


That sounds about right.

I also agree with Link's about destroying her credibility and getting it documented, while meeting the best interests test. You already have more stability and that's half the battle. Just don't start couch surfing any time soon.
Sorry LF32, I haven't figured out how to break down the quotes!

I agree it was crazy but honestly I am so sick of the court and OCL and was ready to settle. I would have 50/50 parenting time and really thats what matters to me. Education isn't really a big concern as all kids are in public school and doing well (minus the 52 lates my daughter had last school year but that was ok to the OCL because she claimed she was working on getting out of bed to bring her to school and I had a clause in about being to school on time and prepared to work. I also had a clause that she couldn't change their schools without my consent. With medical, I again had very specific clauses so she couldn't do anything stupid without my consent. Neither of us are religious and I had clauses for extra curricular so she couldn't pull anything. So essentially on paper it said she has full custody but couldn't really do anything meaningful. Either way she has backed out and it is what it is.

Let me clarify, she has been on welfare for 11 years. She had an apartment but lost it because "she couldn't afford it" in 2014 (my boys moved in a few months before she lost it) and so the kids lived with me while she couch surfed. We agreed and signed a change on consent however there were further documents the court was requiring which she didn't want to fill out (mostly because she would have to admit she had no address). So I served her a motion to change for the exact agreement we had made. The next weekend she saw the kids, she kept them and there wasn't much I could do. She made a go fund me account and a month and a half later moved into her 2 bedroom basement apartment where she has been since then. She has known mental health issues and the OCL reported as such but since she is "Seeking therapy" it wasn't a concern. She is not on disability but on welfare as she was denied ODSP. No addiction issues that we know of.

I have an OCL report that states severe mental health issues, CAS involvement for 10 years, she is transient, she has physically punished my son, can't keep her house clean and doesn't give my sons with ADHD their medication regularly as prescribed by the doctor. The report says that there is too much unknown as she wasn't around when the kids lived with me and I have a tv in the boys room. Those were all concerns listed prior to saying that my ex should retain full custody as she is "seeking therapy". I already have my ducks in a row to fight this report however it took past the 30 day appeal mark to actually get my hands on a copy and get my evidence so I lost that time. CAS has been a regular in her life. She has had an open case for 10 years now. Basically because she has mental health issues and can't keep her house clean and has a history of roach infested living quarters. Nothing severe enough for CAS to do anything but keep a file open and give her free summer camps and christmas gifts. Really, its a joke. We went to court in 2010 and I was given false information from my lawyer at the time about custody and basically told I was going to loose because she took the kids and wouldn't let me see them for months and therefore it created a status quo I would not be able to break. We settled then and I got EOW and some holiday times. Obviously things have changed and I have a temp order now for 43% of the time if counting hourly. This is why she is flipping because she knows with the temp order I have nearly equal parenting time and she doesn't want to "loose her money".

Abusive in the fact that I do not agree with everything she says and when I disagree she calls it emotional abuse. She does not have any email, text, recording, etc of any abuse because there is none. I address her the way I would address one of my customers. Very business and nothing personal as I know how fast she flips off her handle. I also have all exchanges, phone calls, interactions with her recorded so I can prove that I am not abusive. I literally let her flip and walk away. Im not in it to fight with her, Im in it to have a relationship with my children and do my best by them.

I definitely do not plan to couch surf ever! Thanks for the laugh! I will be taking Link's advice and ensuring the proper questions are posed. Thanks for your help!
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