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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2007, 01:06 PM
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FL,

No doubt such statement would hurt any parent and it is very disheartening. No doubt to me that someone's spirit died that day. However, It is obvious the child was coached into saying same by the other parent. Its further obvious that the other parent is poisoning the mind of this 12 year old child. I can't see them making such a call on their own. I think the term "hearing from the horse's mouth" was a dead give away. What kind of parent centered on the wellbeing of a child allows a child to say such words to their other parent?

If it was me, I would definitely move with the action and not make things simple for the other parent. Very little weight would be given to a 12 year old's view by the way. If the OCL intervened, and the child said such to them, the child would require a viable reason for such views. Simply stating "I don't want to see them anymore is not sufficient"

If it was me, on motion, before trial I would request the office of the children's lawyer involvement to put forward the child's sincere views. I would also request access to be reinstated - even if it is supervised or limited in duration. Once this occurs, I would definitely follow through with trial management and of course trial.

I hope that "Dad" regains hope and his spirit and grabs the bull by the horns in this matter.

lv
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2007, 11:51 AM
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I have copied and printed this string of posts for "Dad" to read, if for no other purpose but to be informed as to a "second" opinion.

He has withdrawn his idea that sending a letter and giving up is his only choice now. He has decided to take this to trial and hope that this time the courts see it for what it is. He said that given we were not able to present our evidence at the SC then the ex also did not see our evidence, so he feels we have a shot. We are hoping the ex is basing her claims on the old “he said…She said” and is hoping we have nothing but our word to back us up.

The TMC (Trial Management Conference ) is set for the week of the 18th of June, then we go to trial in October. No firm dates as of yet.

Question, during a TMC can we submit documentation and does such need to be sworn?

Thanks again I will be sure to keep you up to date, as I am sure there must be someone out there either living the same or destined to live it.
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2007, 06:53 PM
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FL,

I would also point out that if the daughter's views was given any considerable weight - A unilateral severance of the parent/ child relationship- Dad would have grounds to bring action to end all payable child support for said child. My point is that its no doubt that a 12 year old lacks capacity to make such an adult decision and I further feel that she was coached into saying what she did by the other parent. As I mentioned, what kind of parent would allow their child to make such a call. Kudos to Dad to move the matter forward

The trial management conference like any conference is just for procedural issues such as necessary disclosure and naming of witness's. No significant orders would be issued in regards to access. Previously, I suggested to bring forth a motion ASAP where you could attach your evidence as an exhibit before the trial management conference and trial in itself. The grounds for the motion could be the following:

a) trial will be many months away and its not in the best interest of the child to continue to not have access to their father much longer.

b) pending trial of the action; the father should be given as much opportunity as is possible to reinstate the bond with the child even if it is graduated/ supervised and to allow him to demonstrate his parenting ability to care for the child.

c) it is the child's right to know their parent in their own environment and such unnecessary restrictions on the child's access should not be based on one parties unproven erroneous allegations.

Keep in mind the following - The onus is on the party that wants the access to demonstrate that it is in the child's best interest for it to occur. There is a presumption that access to their parent is best for the child unless substantial harm is a factor. To limit the child's access, the other parent has the onus to prove that substantial harm will occur to the child

Centre the pleadings around the best interest of the child and what Dad can offer the child into the future.

Litigating the matter demonstrates Dad's commitment to the child notwithstanding all the difficulties encountered to date to have a meaningful relationship.


lv
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2007, 07:46 PM
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FL,

some good reading for Dad:

Fatherneed: Why Father Care Is as Essential as Mother Care for Your Child, by Kyle D. Pruett, M.D.

http://www.drkylepruett.com/publications.htm

SOmetimes the local library may have a copy or used copies to purchase can be found at Amazon.ca

lv
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2007, 09:04 AM
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LV,

Thanks again.
I went to Chapters online and ordered the book after reviewing the posted passages on their site.
Sounds like a great reference.
Have signed up for long distance family counselling as we were unable to get work schedule to work with a local therapist’s schedule. They offer limited telephone help, not great but a good start.

Just when I think I have a firm grasp of what and how FL works and there is something new in the mix,
I understand that starting a new motion it is separate and is completely different from what we are going through with this whole SC, TMC and October Trial. So correct me if I am wrong, we must start this independent of what we are already doing? Do we also mention all this SC, TMC, & trial stuff in our motion?
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2007, 07:07 PM
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FL,

Since you have already had a settlement conference and no doubt other case conferences, and basically the issue has yet to be settled.

Since there is no mention that you must seek leave of the court to bring forth a motion, I think you are free and clear to bring forth such.

As I mentioned your reason for the motion can be the following:

Quote:
a) trial will be many months away and its not in the best interest of the child to continue to not have access to their father much longer. A child is only a child once.

b) pending trial of the action; the father should be given as much opportunity as is possible to reinstate the bond with the child even if it is graduated/ supervised and to allow him to demonstrate his parenting ability to care for the child before trial.

c) it is the child's right to know their parent in their own environment and such unnecessary restrictions on the child's access should not be based on one parties unproven erroneous allegations.
d) no doubt that this parental dispute has consumed a significant part of the child's development previously and interim relief is required.

It can be pointed out that a pending trial may take place over several months rather than a block of time. There is no upfront knowledge of how a trial will be scheduled. If the time for trial is under estimated, it could takes months from the first day to get resolve.

The interim motion would be based on sworn affidavit evidence from the parties where you could attach your exhibits and assessments. Basically you would want to persuade the Judge on the sole issue of the child's access to occur in the interim pending trail for the reasons listed above in a,b and c and d.

If they are alleging DAD is a criminal, attach a police data base search certificate rebutting their allegation and so forth.


Basically you will want to focus on the best interest of the child test and further persuade the court of the benefits to the child that such a relationship occur. (you would think the courts would know this already as its common sense.) You may want to speak about what future contributions Dad could make to the child's pending post secondary education. You will want to identify what the environment will be like for the child such as their own room, describe the community, describe the home, potential recreation and future parenting plans. In other words, how will dad care for the child. If Dad receives significant holidays, propose that Dad wants to spend such time parenting his child.

You will also want to disclose all the rejections and denials of the child's access notwithstanding all the travel you endured. Since the other party may perhaps be indirectly defaming you, you may want to submit into evidence your background and prove that your not a criminal and also your experience in parenting. You may also point out that the child had no problem adapting to the other parties new partner.

To summarize, all you trying to do is persuade here, while the other party will be trying to demonstrate that the child will be in substantial harm if the child exercised their access to their other parent.

Be open for graduated supervised access - As long as it occurs and certainly demonstrates the reasonableness of the request.

I would also ask for an order to have the OCL involved under Section 105 to represent the child independently and to bring the views of the child out into the open.

lv
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2007, 08:27 AM
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FL,
If they are alleging DAD is a criminal, attach a police data base search certificate rebutting their allegation and so forth.[/QUOTE]


We did get a print out as this was a claim, and of course "neither" of us has any record or charges etc. We even had out car insurance company print out our history and not so much as a speeding ticket.


Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalvelocity
In other words, how will dad care for the child. If Dad receives significant holidays, propose that Dad wants to spend such time parenting his child.
Tried to do this in SC included the gradual access regime, and several options for future access both supervised and/or in a facility for same. etc etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalvelocity
You will also want to disclose all the rejections and denials of the child's access notwithstanding all the travel you endured. Since the other party may perhaps be indirectly defaming you, you may want to submit into evidence your background and prove that your not a criminal and also your experience in parenting. You may also point out that the child had no problem adapting to the other parties new partner.
Had all this ready for SC and still have it. Have always had it ready yet it just seems we are always getting kicked in the teeth no matter the amount of proof or documents etc. No word of an exaggeration, the binder of JUST PROOF is more than 6" thick, and this is “only” the bare basics to disprove the many, many allegations ex has alleged. It would be impossible to cut back as there are so many claims by the ex and so much to disprove it. Why won’t the courts listen why won’t the courts at least see this for what it is. She comes in with “I feel” and “I believe”, and we come in with substantiation and we are the ones left with literally nothing? Hello?



Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalvelocity
I would also ask for an order to have the OCL involved under Section 105 to represent the child independently and to bring the views of the child out into the open.
Already a done deal, child was awared OCL at SC.
Thanks again I have alot of work ahead of me don't I?
Time to go looking for forms.
Ta Ta.

FL
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2007, 01:35 AM
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FL,

are you completing the forms yourself? If so send me an email as I have some unprotected and unlocked so you can change the font to black rather than blue.

logicalvelocity@yahoo.ca


lv
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