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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 06:31 PM
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Location: Ontario
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McBroke is on a distinguished road
Default What a mess!!Need soap to clean up

Well here's the latest dirt...

All forms for court(17E,13B,13.1,8E)all served late,(I saved the enelopes with the date stamps)but filed by them on time. I served mine at Lawyer's address at correct time 4 days before and was given a corrected 17E , 13B and 13.1 stating that they made mistakes on the original.

also

on my request to admit I re-worded the Part 6 question 6 of 13.1 Form.
This person contributes about--(she put in) 50%/month towards the household expenses.

to-

The Applicant's partner, "X" pays 50% of the Applicant's lving expenses.
She acknowldged this as the truth.

Will that be of any use?



Also agree that they have a joint lease to 2007. but now she denies cohabitation in 2004, 2005,even though she admitted it in the case conference and I have both their vehicles registered to the same addresses for 200, 2005,2006.

Comment Please.

About Financial questioning

Can I ask questions applicant about previous financial statements?

and

Do I have to submit any forms to request orders or just make a verbal motion

ie Motion for Financial Examination
Order for Income of BF
Order to add a third party (since the bf has a financial commitment by way of the admitted lease to 2007)

on Request to admit she says some things are false like free cell phone, yet under expenses she doesn't have a phone bill listed.
Can I ask her about that?

At the very least with their dodgeball financials and inflated numbers. ie she has the asset but says it's joint, yet claims all the debt for the asset.

I have only unsecured debt. Nothing to show for it.

Thanks, for comments or any answers.
McBroke
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2006, 01:31 AM
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Mcbroke,

Quote:
All forms for court(17E,13B,13.1,8E)all served late,(I saved the enelopes with the date stamps)but filed by them on time. I served mine at Lawyer's address at correct time 4 days before and was given a corrected 17E , 13B and 13.1 stating that they made mistakes on the original.
Remain focused on the issues

Which ones did they file? The originals or the corrected versions? How does a person make a mistake on all three forms. Perhaps they changed their story. You should verify what version was filed into the record as this is the version the Judge will see. Get copies of same. I suspect they may be making this up as an excuse to avoid an adjournment. Review what was changed between the first and second set of documents. What has changed? Question is why? What are they hiding? I think they are beginning to stumble on their untruthfulness. Keep the pressure on them for full disclosure and everything you need top respond to their claim.

Quote:
on my request to admit I re-worded the Part 6 question 6 of 13.1 Form. This person contributes about--(she put in) 50%/month towards the household expenses.

The Applicant's partner, "X" pays 50% of the Applicant's lving expenses.
She acknowldged this as the truth.

Will that be of any use?
Perhaps their need is not a great. I still think you need to question them in regards to their financial statement. Why did they fail to disclose this information in previous financial statements?

Quote:
Also agree that they have a joint lease to 2007. but now she denies cohabitation in 2004, 2005,even though she admitted it in the case conference and I have both their vehicles registered to the same addresses for 200, 2005,2006.

You could bring up the admittance of this fact at the previous conference. On one hand they admit, on another they deny. Credibility is everything and at some point they will slip up. Which is the truth. I think you have substance on this issue alone. Have you verified their previous income tax returns and assessments or any other documentation.(Bank records) credit card statements etc Which address is on this for those previous years? The truth will prevail. If she wasn't living there where was she living? you could ask for receipts previous rent, previous utility etc.

Quote:
About Financial questioning

Can I ask questions applicant about previous financial statements?

and

Do I have to submit any forms to request orders or just make a verbal motion
absolutely, you can ask questions in regards to previous financial statements filed into the record as they are sworn and are to be truthful on a particular date. Its the same as an affidavit.

At any time each party can bring forth a motion. The party that brings forth the motion is the moving party. You could ask for this order at your next conference - If you believe their financial statements are over exaggerated and untruthful bring this issue up. Request to the Judge, they may just grant the request or may leave it for a motion.

If a person resists or contests questioning under the rules for financial statements, it leaves an inference as to why and perhaps they may be hiding something.

If it left up for a motion, you will have to secure a motion date with the Registrar then,complete, file and serve notion of motion, summary of cases, then your affidavit to support the motion. The other side will then have to serve and file their affidavit. If any new issues are addressed in their affidavit, you can complete, serve and file a Reply affidavit. In your reply affidavit you cannot bring forward any new issues.


Quote:
on Request to admit she says some things are false like free cell phone, yet under expenses she doesn't have a phone bill listed.
Can I ask her about that?
Absolutely. If you can show to the court that they are untruthful or inconsistent, their credibility goes out the window. At the end of the day, the Judge won't know what to believe. Financial examination is under oath and the session is recorded and can be entered into evidence.

Say for example, they claim $40 per month dry cleaning, they better have receipts, cleared cheque etc to prove same. They had knowledge of the amount to enter when completing the the financial form. Where did they get the amount when completing in the first place.

Quote:
At the very least with their dodgeball financials and inflated numbers. ie she has the asset but says it's joint, yet claims all the debt for the asset.
Depending on the asset, you could verify who actually owns it. If it is mutually owned, then the liability for the particular asset is mutual or should be unless they gave away half of it. It appears sketchy on the face of it. I think you have something on this issue here.

Quote:
have only unsecured debt. Nothing to show for it.
Was your former spouse responsible for some of this debt? If so bring it up that you carried the community debt that they were equally responsible.

lv

Last edited by logicalvelocity; 07-28-2006 at 08:59 AM.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2006, 10:01 AM
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Default Thank you so much LV

The corrected ones were filed. In comparison they were only typos, both boxes checked in the same answer on the TMC and I'm still reviewing the NFP, sometimes it's not what is there but what isn't there.

Perfect about the income tax statements the addresses are there, maybe this is why they don't want bf's income included. I requested his notice of assessments for the same three years as well as his income(I want proof). Maybe the addresses match up with each others.

The problem with the vehicle loan is it is in both names but includes a trailer that was left at the residence. I could in no way tow it!!! The loan encompassed both her vehicle and trailer. SInce she took the vehicle the trailer was later picked up by her and her bf. There was no way to split the loan. SHe assumed payments. So until now the van and the trailer were on her side of the ledger as well as the entire two vehicle loan. As I believ it should be. Now they are attributing an asset to me(the trailer)but she puts all the liability on her side. Jockeying the numbers to make hers look better. Bad faith I think.

I will peck away at their credibility. My NFP has hardly changed (only from rounded numbers to exact dollars and cents). It seems as soon as she admitted to cohabitation they devoted their energy to NFP trying to alter the books to get some money.

A moving target is hard to hit, but it goes to crediibility.


Thanks LV

Mcbroke
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Old 07-28-2006, 02:57 PM
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Mcbroke,

Don't lose sight of the issue that being; For her to obtain spousal support she will have to have show need and you that you have means. This is why you have exaggerated numbers on their financial paperwork.

Don't get too frustrated about them following family law rules other than what you need such as full and open financial disclosure. Follow through with questioning and disclosure of the bf's and her too. Her current living expenses are half and divided with her bf. This is what they claim now. Look or request any invoices, loan documents, income tax assessments, utility bills etc that would list the address in common for those previous years. You have a right to this disclosure ie: in an old financial statement of theirs, if the party claimed $150 for a hydro bill ask for a copy of the bill. It would definitely show an address. Previous income tax assessments would definitely show where a person lived. If she didn't live with the bf in previous years where did she live? As you mentioned, you already have vehicle registration, get more now and build on this. If you follow through with questioning you could ask for receipts, bank statements, loan documents, credit card statements you name it. You could send them a formal letter requesting all this information up front.

lv
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