Visitation issue

[Kimberley]

When my ex husband and I went back to court for yet another motion to change that he filed, we did a split custody arrangement.

The two oldest went to live with him July 1, 2011 as they wanted that opportunity before they turned 18 (they will be 18 & 17 in June); the two youngest remain with me (13 & 12 - though they will be 14 in April & 13 this month respectively).

The issue is that their father has had no contact with them at all. He expressed interest in seeing them mid October 2011 - his last contact with them was Jan 1 2011. The 13 yr old did not want to see him, so he simply refused to bother for the 12 yr old. This issue is repeating itself again as he has asked to have a visit with them on Saturday, but the 13 yr old still wants nothing to do with his Father - he never wants to see him again. The 12 yr old would like to have the visit, but my ex refuses to bother unless the 13 yr old goes too - he is trying to force him to do something he does not want to.

I feel terrible for our 12 yr old as he has not seen his father in over a year, and today was the first time his father has even bothered to send him a message on facebook was to tell him that he will not see him unless his brother goes too.

Our final order left visitation open to the kids because they are at the age where they may have plans/part-time jobs (older teens) but he has not exercised any visitation with the boys at all.

Am I wrong to not force the 13 yr old (almost 14) to visit so that the youngest one gets to see his father?
I should mention that the 13 yr old is extremely bright and has a higher level of maturity & understanding than most kids his age - he came by his hatred of his father through his own decisions, and knowledge - we do not talk about their father and his own past behaviour brought about the 13 yr old's wish to never see him again.

I am trying to avoid writing an entire book because I suppose that without knowledge of past history, it's hard to understand why a child would want to cut off contact with a parent; I'm just feeling terrible that the 12 yr old is being refused a visit because his father can't 'get his way'.

[madm82]

Wow! I think it is terrible that the father is pitting the children like that. It disgusts me that people do that, alas we can't force people to always do what's right. I would not force your child into going. At that age and if he is that determined, I think it would be more harmful than not.... and what I mean is, he might become really bitter. As for the younger child, is there any way YOU can try to negotiate with the dad? My two oldest who are 11, and 12, have had no contact with their father in over two years, and without getting into all the details atm, I know that if their hands got forced into it (ie, by court order, or me) they'd rather run for the hills then have anything to do with him, as they are that adamant as well (for good reasons, I will add). I think in MOST cases, children should be pushed to always keep contact with the other parent, but then there are those cases, where it's best left up to the child, and I think (with only going by what you said and trusting you are correct) trying to push them into contact or a relationship with the other parent can really have such a long lasting negative impact. The courts in your case have already deemed that it should be left up to the child(ren), so it's probably a really good idea that you do that with the oldest, but maybe see if dad will work with you on seeing the youngest and tell dad, to always just let the oldest know that his door is always open to him, for if and when the time comes that he is ready to start a relationship again.

[madm82]

If your older kids live with the father, could they just maybe have the 12 year old over for a visit (to hang out with them sort of thing) when dad is home? Just a thought...... I feel terrible for your son

[Kimberley]

My ex moved 90 minutes away, so it's not a simple lets go hang out kind of thing. My ex has always used the children to get his way, this has gone on for years in some capacity or another, so it's created animosity between the oldest two and the youngest two children.

I have no idea when he decides to be home, neither do the two oldest - everything is always met with an "I dunno" for the most part. There is no working with him to find a middle ground, it has always been his way or the highway, and unless I give in, things wind up back in court, except this time there isn't a material change so he hasn't been able to file a new motion.

It drives the 13 yr old batty that his brother even wants to see his father but he bites his tongue around him about it and vents to me as it makes him angry - he feels that his father should have protected his younger brother back when the ex's girlfriend (and now wife) assaulted the 12 yr old (when he was 8), she was charged and convicted of assault with a weapon, but the probation & restraining order ran it's course & ended in Dec 2009. He's (the 13 yr old) expressed refusal to see his father ever since then, and under the previous final order he didn't _really_ have the option of not going, he went very grudgingly.
Once the new final order was put in place (May 2011) which left it up to the kids, he's refused to have contact with his father.

My thoughts are just scattered I guess.