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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 11-28-2006, 07:45 PM
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Default Urgent!!! Please!!Need some quick insight LV

Judge read his transcript back to both I and the Applicant, and addresses the Spousal Support issue and NFP.

1) He awarded back support from 2004 (total of 14,500)

2) He also awarded the Applicant a larger sum of money to resolve the NFP difference)

All I have is my pension that cannot be cashed in until I retire.

How do the courts deal with this. Do they just take my pay? I can barely afford to live with the spousal support issued.

We are to return to court on Wednesday.

Probably to assess costs.

I won on the NFP issue.
The spousal support issued was closer to my offer than his (more than what I offered but substantially less than what he asked or offered).
But apparently he won on retroactive support.

How do I deal with costs? How do I ask that we pay our own costs.
How do courts deal with this. I cannot borrow any money
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:48 PM
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Default Part 2 of previous message thread

Is there a possibility that the judge would reverse retroactive spousal support tomorrow. He has not ordered anything but it sounded like his final decision.

Thanks LV

Mcbroke
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Old 11-28-2006, 09:42 PM
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mcb,

tough day for you, as you mentioned,

Quote:
1) He awarded back support from 2004 (total of 14,500)
Was this an order, opinion or recommendation? If it was a recommendation it may be the Judge's way of giving you a heads up on what will happen tomorrow. Make another offer to the other party in regards to fulfill the ruling/opinion etc. Hand them the offer tomorrow morning.

One thing to keep in mind is that it may perhaps be retro-active but is it retro-active lump sum or retro-active periodic dating back to 2004. If it is periodic, you would get the tax advantage. If it is Lump sum - no tax advantage. The other thing to keep in mind is if you don't have the funds and a support deduction order is issued only get a piece at a time until the amount is fulfilled plus applicable interest. This may give you some bargaining power. You mentioned previously that you are close to retirement. Have you considered that you may be coming into a severance pay for years of service.

on your other question

Quote:
Probably to assess costs.

I won on the NFP issue.

The spousal support issued was closer to my offer than his (more than what I offered but substantially less than what he asked or offered).
But apparently he won on retroactive support.

How do I deal with costs? How do I ask that we pay our own costs.
How do courts deal with this. I cannot borrow any money
I would think the Judge is giving you a final opportunity to make another offer, IE: no order in place yet If you offer everything that was recommended today, I suspect you may perhaps avoid a cost award.

One way to ask that each pay their own costs is

Success is divided, each party to bear their own costs.

lv
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:01 PM
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Default Thank you so much LV

I believe it is a very strong warning LV, No Orders in my hands as of yet. What if I offer 550 a month and earmark $27,000 of my pension+ interest until retirement. ie her share would earn interest inside my pension plan, a quasi pension if you would payable to her upon my retiremnet or death, the judge alluded to the fact that she has no pension ?He also side barred in away and said quietly as he left for chambers (You should talk, and looked at me)

I can't even afford $350 a month but anything to avoid retroactivity.
Do I make the judge aware of the offer or just give it toi her lawyer before court?
Thanks for coming through Mcbroke, it makes sense
Mcbroke.
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:23 PM
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Mcb,

Quote:
Do I make the judge aware of the offer or just give it toi her lawyer before court?
The Judge was giving you a cue

If it was me I would do up a formal written offer and give it to them first thing in the morning. Address the Judge verbally that you consent to what he recomended and made a formal offer to the party. The Judge will see you are more than reasonable and if they attempt to litigate for more beyond what the Judge has mentioned, I suspect they won't get more, they may even get less and the Judge may award costs against them.

You do have the tax advantage if the retroactivity is periodic payment. If FRO garnishes your wages, they will take 50% of your pay until the retro amount is paid in full. This is a bargaining chip for you as they won't receive ie 14K of retroactivity in one shot.

good luck tomorrow

lv
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Old 11-29-2006, 06:40 AM
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Default How does this sound LV as far as the spousal support

The term of the spousal suport offered by the judge was the retroactive and after two years go under review. What if I offered the $500/ month for 4 years no review. This ropughly equates to the arrears and guarantees them additional two years.

Thanks for your tremendous insight.
Mcbroke
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Old 11-29-2006, 10:36 AM
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mcb,

it does appear reasonable and generous. The point you want to emphasize is that you have made several reasonable offers. You want to avoid having a cost award against you.

500/month is approximately 350/month considering tax deduction for periodic spousal support.

In essence your basically offering them 24k fixed but in periodic style. Perhaps they may accept same.

Keep in mind that Offers to settle will come into the equation if costs are awarded.

lv
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Old 11-29-2006, 09:02 PM
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Default The day is over

The judge heard on costs plus pretrial interest for the matters before him .
On costs the Applicant wanted 19000 and pretrial interest.

On costs I argued inability to pay, the behaviour of the Applicant lack of Full and Frank disclosure until the beginning of trial.

He argued loser pays.

Award to Applicant on cost only $5000 no pretrial interest awarded.

Question LV

I had faxed the offer to the Applicant in the am, was not even addressed by the Applicant. I mentioned in court that an offer had been put before the other party embracing the suggestions that His Honour had put down but the judge had apparently already made his decision the previous day. He remarked that "the offer was a little late in the day so to speak"

What happens now:

I owe $14,500 retro support
$500/ month
$22000 NFP
and now $5,000 legal fees.

Question:
Is there a waiting period for appeal before the judge issues and signs the order? How long would that be?

You mentioned that the FRO could take 50% of my wages . Is this always done? On the retro support would I still get a tax credit for it or is it considered a lump sum award? Who collects the legal fees? Any more info about this would be greatly appreciated. Does the Net family property just sit there and collect interest until I pay it or can the FRO collect on that from my wages as well?

Spousal support I can handle, the NFP if they can wait, but the killer is the retroactive support?

My suggestion to anyone if there is disparity in your wages while going through separation, if you make a written offer include an offer for some support.


Thanks LV, I felt that I was a righteous man in that courtroom, nothing to hide, and I stood up for my family. I know what I did was simply for a just and fair decision, and with your help and support I felt honoured by how you made this even possible. I was not nervous nor fearful, because I felt that this was a fight for honesty and for anyone who has to go it alone, but I did not feel
I was by myself. I am not an arguer and in no way ambitious to be a lawyer or in the legal field, but I always try to help as you and others in this forum have done, the weak and the desparate and righteous.


Triying to pay it forward.
Thankyou LV.
MCbroke
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:14 PM
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mcb,

sorry to hear how things went today.

Quote:
I had faxed the offer to the Applicant in the am, was not even addressed by the Applicant. I mentioned in court that an offer had been put before the other party embracing the suggestions that His Honour had put down but the judge had apparently already made his decision the previous day. He remarked that "the offer was a little late in the day so to speak"

What happens now:

I owe $14,500 retro support
$500/ month
$22000 NFP
and now $5,000 legal fees.
The court will issue a support deduction order to the FRO. Fro can take 50% of your pay until the amounts are paid. It will take a few months to get this garnishment flowing. The FRO is very slow. I am still not clear on the 14.5K, if it was periodic. I seem to think it is as it is classed as retroactive.

The successful party is to write up the order and issue you a draft for approval. If you remain silent, approval is given by default. To ensure the wording is correct, you should obtain a copy of the Judge's hand written endorsement to compare the draft order with the written order.

To appeal the Judgment or parts thereof it all depends what court your recent hearing was heard

For orders originating in the Ontario Court of Justice - An appeal rests with the Superior Court of Justice

For orders originating in the Superior Court of Justice - An appeal rests with the Court of Appeal for Ontario

See this Court of Appeal Ontario Guide
http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/court...lp/civil.htm#4


#5 of same - 5. How do I apply for leave to appeal?

In most civil appeals that require leave to appeal, a notice of motion for leave to appeal must be served within 15 days from the date of the order being appealed and filed within 5 days of service. There is a fee for filing of the notice of motion, payable at the time the notice of motion is submitted for filing. If leave to appeal is granted, a notice of appeal must then be served and filed within seven days.

Quote:
Thanks LV, I felt that I was a righteous man in that courtroom, nothing to hide, and I stood up for my family. I know what I did was simply for a just and fair decision, and with your help and support I felt honoured by how you made this even possible. I was not nervous nor fearful, because I felt that this was a fight for honesty and for anyone who has to go it alone, but I did not feel
I was by myself. I am not an arguer and in no way ambitious to be a lawyer or in the legal field, but I always try to help as you and others in this forum have done, the weak and the desperate and righteous.
I believe you did well and there is no fault in trying. You could of spent 20-40K on your own litigation fees and ended up with same result or worse. Kudos for you for taking the bull by the horns and representing yourself.

The duty of the appeal court is not to retry the matter but to analyze if any errors were made by the presiding Judge.

lv
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Old 11-30-2006, 06:08 AM
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Default Thank you LV

Again I defer to you LV, your help and guidance in my time of need has been a godsend. Two things not covered by the appeal information.
1) Is the original Order suspended pending the outcome of Appeal.
2) Is there a Reference to which I might find for grounds for Appeal?

Again: For those who go through this emotional rollercoaster of Family Court. The one thing I found beneficial throughout the entire proceedings was to refer to my ex-spouse as the Applicant, this made it much easier to be objective. Any communication and or court filings I would recommend this practiseand refer to your ex partner as Applicant or Respondent whatever the case may be.If you ge too close to the case you lose sight of the financial issues and complicate matters with emotional ones. Every judge I stood before had requested a number, that was provided and in due course promotes settlement.

Sorry to editorialize LV and thank you once again
MCBroke
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