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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2017, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Your choice.
I must must must.

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Even if there is no material change in the circumstances as the provision requires, a court may vary or set aside an agreement that is not in the best interests of the child: T.C. v. L.S., 2009 BCPC 275 (CanLII) at para. 15.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2017, 12:50 AM
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I must must must.
Read my reply. Thanks for the BC case law. I cited you better case law to review that is the leading case now in Ontario. It contemplates your view and throws it out the window.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:54 AM
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Your choice. I am very familiar with the test for those circumstances. They are for minor changes and not big variations on custody and access.

Blah blah blah...

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/do...015onca46.html

Good luck climbing that ^^^ hill. I am sure your lawyer has provided you this Appeal decision that is the subject of piles of blog posts and legal reviews. :O

Also this is the order that the Appeal court upheld in that matter for your reference too:

http://canlii.ca/t/g2s0d

In addition:

Changing Final Orders in Family Matters - Clicklaw Wikibooks
and following a final decision of that kind is where you stop paying child support and start picking up your child straight from school and making decisions that best serve your child, as opposed to letting a stranger make them for you. Being a father is a human right, not a legal one. But then again, we live in Canada. A very sad country indeed.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:58 AM
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and following a final decision of that kind is where you stop paying child support and start picking up your child straight from school and making decisions that best serve your child, as opposed to letting a stranger make them for you. Being a father is a human right, not a legal one. But then again, we live in Canada. A very sad country indeed.
Actually being a parent is not a "human right". You cited the "best interests of the child". Parents have no rights. Children have all the rights. You should know this?

Your case will face this appeal in the BoA BTW. It is very commonly cited and relied upon in 2017. So you better have an answer for each and every one of the rebuttals.

As an advocate for parents who have been left behind as a result of Parental Abduction your comments are very concerning. I hope this is just an expression of your frustration and not an actual belief you have. I hope that you will take your own action and abduct your children if you don't get what you want.

Last edited by Tayken; 01-27-2017 at 01:02 AM.
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2017, 12:59 AM
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Read my reply. Thanks for the BC case law. I cited you better case law to review that is the leading case now in Ontario. It contemplates your view and throws it out the window.
It actually makes no reference to my case law. I don't think any of those judges want the public to know that they do hold the power to overturn custody orders absent of a material change. They just don't want people to know that the best interests of the child overrides it. Looks like they concluded that the child was well adjusted and thriving. If there was any sign of the child not being happy and not thriving, they would have changed it. But then again, there is no way that child is happy, we sure as hell know that the father isn't, the child is going to have all sorts of anxieties and other issues due to the state those soulless judges have put the child and father relationship in.

Last edited by trinton; 01-27-2017 at 01:35 AM.
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2017, 01:04 AM
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Actually being a parent is not a "human right". You cited the "best interests of the child". Parents have no rights. Children have all the rights. You should know this?

As an advocate for parents who have been on the wrong end of Parental Abductions your comments are very concerning.

Being a parent is most indeed a human right. Humans have rights. We all know this. Isn't this what we teach our children in school?

I most indeed cited the best interests of the child. And that is to have two loving parents in their life, not one, not one and half, two. Two loving involved parents. Children don't have any rights in court. Their wishes and dreams are squashed in day in and day out. (Not all the time). We have some few good judges who have souls.

And regarding my comments, recently saw a case where a father did that for his access pickup, called the police right after, and ended up winning school pickup and drop offs in trial. I will post the case for your shortly. My comment was regarding the right to pickup your child from school as opposed to from a babysitter or from moms house. I personally wouldn't ever do that. It would cause too much trauma to a child. I won a motion to take my child out of the country for over a week during the holidays and returned her home safely. You can sleep well assured tonight.

And yes, that was without a material change. Final order doesn't allow any holiday access whatsoever. Sometimes the best interests of the child is all that matters. And sometimes that is nothing more than just to have reasonable quality meaningful time with dad.

Last edited by trinton; 01-27-2017 at 01:34 AM.
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2017, 01:34 AM
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What doesn't make any sense is that a court often won't change a final order without a material change, because it's apparently not in the child's best interests. But if the mom agrees and consents, then all of a sudden all of that material change nonsense is irrelevant and the child get's to enjoy more time with dad.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2017, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Your choice. I am very familiar with the test for those circumstances. They are for minor changes and not big variations on custody and access.

Blah blah blah...

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/do...015onca46.html

Good luck climbing that ^^^ hill. I am sure your lawyer has provided you this Appeal decision that is the subject of piles of blog posts and legal reviews. :O

Also this is the order that the Appeal court upheld in that matter for your reference too:

http://canlii.ca/t/g2s0d

In addition:

Changing Final Orders in Family Matters - Clicklaw Wikibooks
Here, I'll take a shot at a better response to you. No my lawyer hasn't showed me that case law. He doesn't just show me case law. he knows the case law. He is going to argue passage of time as material change. There is lots of case law to support that. Paired with other material changes, I think I'm going to continue plowing throw the conferences, hearings, and motions. Royal road to trial. I may win, I may lose. Either way, I will learn a lot and gain a lot. I don't just go away or walk away. I fight for what I believe is right until my last breath. I do it for my child. I know what's best for my child. The courts might not agree but the mental health professionals do. My child is too vocal about wanting more time.

What is interesting is that, even in that case, the father has more time than me! Every case I have seen, no matter how bad, the father has everything that I have asked for in my motion to change and in my offer to settle! I certainly am being very reasonable!

But since the material change is in the bag, I'm going for more! and lots of things to use against mom too! Holding on to my cards for now.

Last edited by trinton; 01-27-2017 at 02:29 AM.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2017, 10:00 AM
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Do you know what you are scheduled for? Case Conference. Generally this is the first appearance in most court jurisdictions. "Going to court" is a general term. The question is for what?

With regards to a MCIC. Those are no walk in the park. Just look at the case law on it. I doubt there is a change that is material enough to meet the requirements of the court.
It is a "first appearance". He submitted an "application" and I have to now submit an "answer". I doubt there is material change enough either.
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:05 AM
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If the order is not FINAL then yes. If the order is marked FINAL it is a whole different ball game. Remember, agreements made on consent, motions and other things that are not marked FINAL are always open for change.

It is the FINAL ORDER that you have to worry about. The OP in this matter has a FINAL ORDER. Vastly different than your situation that is still before the court with no FINAL ORDER issued.

You need to understand the nuances of what FINAL and WITHOUT PREJUDICE really mean.
I DO have a Final Order. The other thing that may be different for me as compared to Trinton is that I also have 8 years of this being the status quo arrangement that he was content with. Even in his "Application" document he is setting the stage to be misleading....he states that since the signing of the agreement he has established a family home; however, he bought that house BEFORE the agreement was signed and the kids have been living in it ever since. Also, Trinton, there is ZERO change to his shift work schedule. Everything is the same as it always was.
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