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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 09-15-2017, 01:53 AM
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Default unpleasant exchanges at daycares with witnesses present..

Hi friends, I have a bit of an odd and very awkward situation. We are currently (given the other parent's demands) doing exchanges at the babysitters who is actually not looking after the child at those times, but rather just being there to ensure the exchanges go smoothly. THe other parent will not permit pickups from school and there is no requirement that exchanges be monitored or supervised. It is simply a mom-made law.

further to that, the daycare is not someone who I view as a neutral 3rd party given unpleasant disparaging comments made by her to our child, as well as her verbally attacking me in front of the child, and making unfounded allegations to the CAS about me. There is no ongoing relationship with babysitter and myself, and babysitter has instructed child to not hug me on pikcups, and requested that I ask someone else to do pickups as she does not wish to see me ever since I redirected the CAS allegations to her. But she has started showing her face again, giving me the stink eye and throwing insults at me as much as she possibly can. I have told the other parent that I am not conmfortable with current babysitter, asked to switch babysitters, and asked to do pickups from school, but it doesn't matter what I say and it is always pay pay pay and do do do.

As per the other parent herself, she shows up at daycares with sister and takes child to see babysitter during my parenting time and makes me wait at least 5-15 minutes before releasing child. This has gotten quite annoying and I'm finding myself just waiting for child to be released, and very recently, , babysitters client's hangout outside and I have to physically walk up to mom and babysitter in their huddle circle in order for child to be released to me (very awkward with the stink eye from babysitter and mom and her 45 witnesses all staring me down making me feel uncomfortable).

Mom has made allegations of domestic violence and threats against me and seeked restraining orders. No charges have ever been laid and no restraining orders have ever been granted. I don't really trust these people so I like to keep my distance but I see the child being caught in the middle of this all.

What is the best thing for me to do? Just continue walking up to them after few minutes giving everyone some time to cool down ? I usually wait for opportunity for child to look at me then I engage so child just comes to me. CHild has been told not to come to me unless i go to her first, and keeps looking at mom until mom says yes. Recently, child was asked to sit in the car as soon as I arrived. It came obvious mom and babysitter wanted to engage with me about something in front of child and I overheard babysitter telling mom's sister to start recording on her phone and so I kept my distance.

Mom is trying to prove we don't get along and so joint custody and shared parenting are not appropriate, I am trying to prove we do get along but mom just looks for ways to create conflict and just claim we don't get along as she has sole custody and it is easy for her to do just that.

Anyone else been in this situtation ? Some questions for me are why does exchanges need to be at babysitter when I can pikcup from school? WHy does mom have to be there? Why does babysitter have to show up when child isn't even in care after school when the exchanges happen and can mom and babysitter use this as ammo against me? If we need someone to monitor exchanges, then why only for pickups and not for drop offs?

OCL is involved and investigating, and will be interviewing teachers, daycare,doctors etc.

Any thoughts or questions? What could OCL get from this? And what is the best way for me to raise this with OCL? I have previously just mentioned school pickusp would be best as it would reduce conflict, I wouldn't have to see her and she wouldn't have to see me. Conflict would be reduced and we could better get along and coparent for our child's wellbeing and future. Are recent occurrences worth mentioning to OCL ?
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:25 AM
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Is there an interim custody order?
If so, what does it say?
If not, why can't you just pick up the child from school?

...to put it another way, why are you following Mom's rules if you don't like Mom's rules?
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Old 09-18-2017, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Is there an interim custody order?
If so, what does it say?
If not, why can't you just pick up the child from school?

...to put it another way, why are you following Mom's rules if you don't like Mom's rules?
There is a final custody order. Other parent has sole. I have access every other weekend, specifically Saturday to Sunday, and every Wednesday. Currently it is expanded to Friday pickups out of court. Wedsnesday pick up and drop off times are to be agreed upon so it's mom's way or hit the highway as of now. I have tried to just pickup from school but other parent didn't allow it at the school and spoke to the school and told them to not allow it, so the school spoke to me and said they would have to call the police if I showed up again. I checked their website and they are encouraged to contact the police if access parent shows up to pick up kids without a court order or consent of other parent. This was of course the supply principal who was filling in for the real principal who didn't know me and felt sort of emberassed after she learned I was volunteering in the child's classroom when she came to give me crap, and that I was a member of the school council and not a criminal. The real principal would have never spoken to me like that. Regardless, I clarified to the school I wasn't there to kidnap the child and just there to pick her up early for the Father's day weekend. You would think the other parent or the school wouldn't make an issue out of that and get the police involved on the father's day weekend. But sometimes, you would just be surprised about the type of greif father's are given due to the resentment and controlling behaviors of some parents,specifically a mom in my case.

I am following mom's rules to avoid creating conflict that would likely harm our child, as I patiently await for the OCL to make a recommendation for school pick ups and for the courts to order that.
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tunnelight View Post
There is a final custody order. Other parent has sole. I have access every other weekend, specifically Saturday to Sunday, and every Wednesday. Currently it is expanded to Friday pickups out of court. Wedsnesday pick up and drop off times are to be agreed upon so it's mom's way or hit the highway as of now. I have tried to just pickup from school but other parent didn't allow it at the school and spoke to the school and told them to not allow it, so the school spoke to me and said they would have to call the police if I showed up again. I checked their website and they are encouraged to contact the police if access parent shows up to pick up kids without a court order or consent of other parent. This was of course the supply principal who was filling in for the real principal who didn't know me and felt sort of emberassed after she learned I was volunteering in the child's classroom when she came to give me crap, and that I was a member of the school council and not a criminal. The real principal would have never spoken to me like that. Regardless, I clarified to the school I wasn't there to kidnap the child and just there to pick her up early for the Father's day weekend. You would think the other parent or the school wouldn't make an issue out of that and get the police involved on the father's day weekend. But sometimes, you would just be surprised about the type of greif father's are given due to the resentment and controlling behaviors of some parents,specifically a mom in my case.

I am following mom's rules to avoid creating conflict that would likely harm our child, as I patiently await for the OCL to make a recommendation for school pick ups and for the courts to order that.


Unfortunately you are basically screwed until you have the court order changed... seems you guys have stepped outside what was laid out in your agreement... that is great as long as you get along but as soon as you don't the agreement trumps any outside agreements you may have had. The school was also in the right to deny you pick up... I know it doesn't seem fair but think of it from their perspective... maybe you aren't a crazy parent but if they didn't have policies and just released children early to non constodial parents how many abductions would take place? Regardless of it you volunteer or not schools also have to follow court orders.

It's sad really that you have to go through this and hopefully you can get it changed in court asap but for the time being you either have to follow the court order which seems to be only every other Saturday and Sunday and Wednesday or you suck it up as much as you can and play by moms rules until you can get a new court order


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Old 09-19-2017, 11:40 AM
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There is a final custody order. Other parent has sole.
Oh.

Then you pretty much have no leverage whatsoever. You have to do exactly what mom says. Mom has the right to stop you from picking the kids up from school. Mom has the right to hire a babysitter that insults you to your face. You are effectively a nobody.

Until you get joint custody, you have nothing. Your games are useless and counterproductive. Be nice, get joint custody, then maybe you can start to play.

Seriously, what made you think that you had any right to dictate anything if you don't even have custody?

...and I'm sick of dads letting moms have sole custody.
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Old 09-19-2017, 12:41 PM
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Oh.

Then you pretty much have no leverage whatsoever.
I could file interim motion but court won't entertain that as OCL is investigating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
You have to do exactly what mom says. Mom has the right to stop you from picking the kids up from school. Mom has the right to hire a babysitter that insults you to your face. You are effectively a nobody.
Yeah, and sometimes I want to tell the babysitter to mind her own business and set her in place, but I just ignore her because she's not worth my energy or time. No point in arguing with an idiots. Idiots will always beat you with experience and bring you down to their level. I don't do everything mom tells me to do. Only rules I follow is pickup and drop off times as that is only way for me to enjoy parenting times. I keep a very good distance with babysitter so she can't insult me. The insults have been reported to CAS and OCL. She can insult me all she wants, I will just document and use against her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
until you get joint custody, you have nothing.
I do have some things I could do, such as keep child overnight and drop to school next morning, etc, but won't take that route as it could hurt my case. I will however oppose and not participate in unilateral decisions if I don't agree to them, regardless of joint or sole custody. If I don't and didn't agree then I didn't and don't agree. Not paying daycare as the decision was unilateral, also not paying S7 as they were also unilateral. Lawyer has said the amounts are minimal and it would be unlikely she would be given any legal aid certificate to have a trail on such small monies. There is a lot of power I have even without joint custody. But you are right, mom will just continue to make unilateral decisions without joint custody, which will just lead to conflict if I don't agree to them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Your games are useless and counterproductive. Be nice, get joint custody, then maybe you can start to play.
Exactly what I'm doing. Not sure what you mean by games. Perhaps are you referring to me attempting to pickup child from school? The exchanges at daycare are not healthy and I wanted to remove child from conflict and try to pick her up from school, but mom made that an unpleasant living hell for child as well. I'm just trying to do the right thing and mom is interfering and preventing that, so I just continue to go to daycare where it is still a living hell for child with stink eye babysitter, and mom and her 45 witnesses all present. Pickup from school would be the right thing. I won't have to see mom and her 95 witnesses and she won't have to see me. Just child and parent, and less conflict.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Seriously, what made you think that you had any right to dictate anything if you don't even have custody?

...and I'm sick of dads letting moms have sole custody.
I was not and am not in this to dictate, but rather to discuss and mutually agree on things, just like a good parent should. I was however hoping mom would be involving me in the decisions and viewing my inputs as valid and seeking input from me. I have now amended for sole as an alternative and not looking to cut mom out of decisions, she is the mom and should be involved, I have tried hard to work with her and coparent and suggested tools we could use, i.e., OFW, but it just doesn't happen and it's always just pay pay pay and do do do. The OCL has noted the mother not involving me in the decisions as a concern.

I am sick of myself for having consented to that order. But I was under duress and being bullied when I was self represented not having a clue about the laws and regulations and all the games the other parent could play and dictate. I guess I had an expectation she would be reasonable with me and involve me in the decisions and be willing to facilitate and expand access to 50-50 without me having to involve the lawyers, the courts, and now the OCL.
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