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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2007, 12:05 PM
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Default Trial Dates

I have a question for the more experienced members.
Is it possible to file to have a trail date cancelled?
We are ready to throw in the towel and roll over and surrender our underside like the dogs she thinks we are.

Dad has been denied access for almost 2yrs, cannot get into the finite details, but we have been in and out of court several times to change this. Mom moved 18+ hours away, without notice. Went to court to change that, mom said it was only for 6 months, 18 months later she moves yet again, ever farther, tried to do something about that too, courts maintain status quo with mom.

We have literally exhausted all financial and legal avenues to get this changed, even spent $25,000 on assessments and psychological evaluations to prove mom’s allegations wrong, still courts will not seem to listen to reason. Status Quo prevails even though dad cannot see daughter. Daughter now 12, and insists she no longer wants anything to do with him unless he does “everything” mom has asked of him. If I went into that detail any sane person would realize it was impossible to accomplish unless we were magic, and had the wealth of Donald Trump. So we have run out of money and are emotionally drained to say the least. Dad wants to pay what he owes each month and walk away. She set a trial, we do not want the trial, but for some reason we have no say? Can we cancel the Trial and offer that we do not want anything, no visitation, etc and we will pay support as per tables? If we do this I understand we are liable for costs, but what could possibly be the cost, her lawyer only sent us a total of 3 letters?


HELP!
FL
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:24 PM
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FL,

You could send them an offer to settle that address's all their claims, and hence no real reason for trial. The cost factor could come about.


lv
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:30 AM
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Default Update and some insight for others

Thanks LV for the post, I went to a friend of mine that is a lawyer and made a request on this issue.

Yes trials can be cancelled if the two parties agree and send such in writing to the court admin. responsible for setting the dates. With clear and consice explanations as to why there is no further need for the trial date.

So we went the motion route yet again.
Offered to leave things as status quo.
This being, no access unless child requests it.
Also included that we will no longer send CS directly to ex as we want to cut all direct ties IE communications with her. She requested that we withdraw from FRO, we didn't want to, she insisted we agreed. Anyway we insisted on FRO involvement to begin in the new year and that we (husband) would not seek access or contact etc. With this we clearly explained that all the weekly email we have been sending, the monthly updates via registered letters, and all the special day gifts and just thinking of you things will also no longer happen since dad does not want to be a dad out or convenience and when it is ok for the ex. Dad will also stop his involvement in the childs education, dad maintained monthly contact with school and had regular meetings with them each year, since this was the only physical thing he could do that the EX didn't circumvent.

You see since the beginning when (Ex felt it was not ok for access that is since the child was adamantly refusing and ex wasn't going to tell the child she had to even if she didn't want to), we have maintained weekly email updates, just about things, you know, things going on in the family.
And we always, on our regular access date, sent a lengthy letter via reg. mail with a trinket or a card and give her pictures of family etc. And on special occasions like Halloween we’d send a box of candy and gifts for her to hand out in class, We’d also send her siblings something (not dad’s biological children they are children of second and third relationships). And if we spotted something that screamed the daughter would love this, we got it and mail it to her with a card telling her we were thinking of her. We would also contact the teacher each and every year, provide pre-posted envelopes so we could get weekly or monthly updates. Dad always scheduled telephone meetings or in-person meetings with teacher’s to stay in the loop as much as he physically could. We advised all this would no longer happen. The only thing we asked for in return was to be kept up to date on the daughters complete contact info so that we could provide the same should the daughter change her mind about having dad in her life.

With all this ex’s lawyer got sloppy, (we did a lot of correspondence via email) she, the lawyer, was CC’ing correspondence directed to dad to not only the ex, but the ex’s mother, father, and ex husbands?????? So we called the lawyer on it and asked what was going on? If she was sending something to us, why was she making it a point to CC all these people? We also asked why the parents of the ex were taking liberty to directly correspond to the lawyer and get replies from her? As far as we are concerned it is none of their concern. Sure the ex has the right to forward anything she wants, but to CC them all in the primary correspondence??? Hello, where did ethics go, or is that a mute point in family law too? So the trial has been cancelled so too has all other motions in light of dad’s offer and an agreement is supposed to be drawn up to be submitted as a final order. This is a good read for those going through FL, remember that things do not follow the rules and at any point they will make a quick left turn no matter how cooperative you are. And understand that "nothing" in FL is final, not even an order written as such. When a material change affecting the children happens things start all over agian.

Sorry for the lengthy vent, but every day my fears about FL are perpetuated when stuff like this is permitted to happen at who’s’ expense? Dad’s? I think not!
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:02 PM
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FL,

Very sad story and another situation where a child is alienated against one of their parents.

If the child has ended the relationship unilaterially, there is significant case law that supports that you may have grounds to pursue that no child support be payable.

Something to think about and another left turn.


lv
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:27 AM
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Thanks LV

But this is a "very" complicated case, and although on the surface it looks like the daughter unilaterally decided to end contact, mom has gone out of her way to validate the daughter’s wishes. She hopped from one therapist to another looking for one that would support her claim that the daughter was being traumatized at our home, and that our constant drilling and speaking to her about “adult issues” and defamed mom and mom’s family to daughter was causing serious emotional and physical stress to the point of break down. Of course not true, and, but how do you prove something didn’t happen?

You see our parenting is not like the EX and as such she feels we have caused emotional trauma to the child. We advised the mom right away that we felt daughter was uncomfortable with our visit and that we tried speaking to her about it to no avail, and she said there were serious problems and wanted dad to address them. So we asked what the problems were since the daughter wasn’t telling us. Mom got furious, and demanded that dad do something NOW! We asked what do you want us to do? She said to stop talking to her about adult issues, we told her what we said, and that we never said anything like daughter claimed. Mom said we were liars and that we were intentionally harming the daughter and that she would not let it continue, so she continued taking the daughter to therapist after therapist. Once we found out the name dad would call to take part in treatment, just to make sure it was complete. Then mom would change doctors.
This went on for almost a year, and every time mom took us to a motion to vary access the stories told got bigger and more horrid, and we hadn’t even seen the daughter in that year, yet we “continued to have adult discussions and said negative things to daughter about mother and family” What the ????
So mom eventfully denied all access and dad took her to court for contempt of an order, judge did not in so many words say she was guilty of this, but that she did “unilaterally deny access” and was never to repeat this without the courts say so, “She could not unilaterally deny access on the say so of any medical professional without first seeking a variance of access through the courts”.

Anyway, at this we were granted access, went to get daughter, daughter would only agree if I was not present, OK I leave, then daughter said she changed her mind. Dad is frustrated, does not want to force her, so we leave and drove 12hours back home.

We did not seek another order on contempt since we were out of money and time off work and very, very over whelmed and we immediately thought this was PAS. It fit the pathology. We undertake the physiological assessment that was ordered (took a year to complete). So too does mom, but when it comes time for daughter’s part with dad, mom refuses, “to force her to do anything she is not comfortable with”. SO in my opinion this assessment is flawed, yet Mom used it after that to get the recommendation of the doctor inputted on dad “prior” to allowing access. So too did she want access to be supervised until the daughter was comfortable with leaving the city again. Daughter was 10 and a half. And mom wanted our entire family to take lengthy psychological treatments and therapy sessions before allowing access so that we could understand the harm we had caused so it does not repeat itself. Mom told courts she thought we were alcoholics and drug abusers and that we seriously needed treatment, we provided our medical records to disprove this. She then pushed the alcoholic thing, we provided a print out from the local authorities of a back ground check on both of us that had no conviction or speeding tickets or parking infractions, nothing!, but she kept pushing, and the courts kept going with status quo until they could resolve this very “complicated” case. In the interim, mom moves, so we seek to have that changed, (she told us of the move after the fact). That went no where as mom reiterated the entire BS about alcohol abuse and emotional trauma we purportedly caused the daughter and the daughter’s unwillingness to have access for that reason.

We tried to get someone to help us legally with the upcoming trial so that we wouldn’t loose because of a lack of knowledge. That went no where as no one would take us at such a late stage in the case. So we tried to prepare our own.
We simply got too overwhelmed and decided since the daughter has clearly and repeatedly said she does not want access, and that she is sick and tired of all the medical professionals and such, we decided to call it quits. What kind of access would it be if it was a constant struggle? Not to mention the distance they now live 18hours away (one way). We do not want to harm the daughter more, nor do we want her to continue to undertake BS treatments and be constantly inundated by people and their questioning. So we sent a letter to that affect, we will no longer seek access and from now on FRO involvement. End of story.

So unless you know someone that is willing to go to bat for us, this is over, the daughter looses and the mom can stop the PAS and hopefully one day the daughter seeks us out and maybe then she'll take the time to let us talk to her and explain what "really" happened. I just pray to god that her life will be filled with happiness not sadness or any other ramifications due to all of this and the PAS she has endured.

That's my story, so I've seen and been through more in the FL system than most, too bad it was the worst case scenario
FL
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:49 AM
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FL,

Indeed, very sad and another example how the judicial system creates adversary and has failed the child.

I do think you would get the courts attention if you brought forth action by way of motion to cease the current child support obligation. Case law is pretty clear that when a child withdraws unilaterally from a relationship with their non-custodial parent; the child support obligation stops. In this matter the child is somewhat younger and is not really clear what weight the court would give to the views of the child to unilateral terminate the relationship.

lv
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