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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 11-07-2016, 07:00 PM
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Default Spousal Support

I've been told that Spousal Support (SS) has 2 main components made up of Financial and Compensatory. There is a third component but I don't recall what its called and it is usually not applicable. I'm coming from a 20 year marriage and my x's age and years of service is greater than 65. I noticed that both of these metrics put us in a special category but I'm not really sure what the real impact of that is. Perhaps too quickly and not fully understanding the implications I agreed to an interim agreement with spousal support at the mid point (SS with child support formula) only because it was the mid point which seemed fair at the time.

In mediation we have glossed over the topic of Financial vs Compensatory. The solution however remains one solution. Although I'm in the military (which seems to be the goto example for justifying compensatory), we moved relatively little and my x only had to quit 1 job because of a move and that was very early on in our relationship. My counter point to the compensatory argument is my x took several highly specialized (expensive) training programs in different fields targeted at getting a job which never materialized, and x quit 2 very promising careers because they weren't "the right fit". Am I really on the hook for a compensatory component of this SS? If this is a financial SS how would we determine an end date?

Further, Shared Custody Child Support is in play and since full table over compensates the lower income parent, can this be used to justify zero SS?
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:46 PM
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I'm not sure how to answer some of your questions but child support and spousal support are completely different things, one shouldn't affect decisions about the other. CS is pretty straightforward - the federal government has tables who for pays how much, based on income, number of children and province of residence, and 99% of the time, CS is determined by looking up figures in the tables (technically CS is negotiable under some circumstances, but in practice, very rarely).

Spousal support is completely negotiable - one party offers, the other counter-offers, and they both hope to arrive at a mutually agreeable result without burning up all their assets in lawyer fees. You can certainly include an end date in your offer - you could frame it as providing support for your ex to get on her feet financially, but not intending to support her indefinitely. Give her a reasonable length of time to find a job and then present a schedule for gradually phasing SS out until it's zero.

With respect to compensatory SS, bear in mind that military postings are often in remote areas where there are few career prospects (beyond low-end service jobs) for spouses. Even if you didn't move that much, if you were living somewhere that didn't offer prospects for your spouse, she may have an argument for compensation.

(And the third justification for SS is contractual - the existence of an agreement predating the separation in which the spouses agreed what would happen in the event of marriage breakdown like a prenup (mainly only very rich people and people on their third marriage have such contracts)).
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:04 PM
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Let me help you.

Starting Point:
Take your gross income of both your salaries put together divide it in half and that is how much you each get for the rest of your lives.
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:13 PM
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Ah, so the reference to child support was just a remnant from a previous thread. I think I understand all that now.

Back to SS, my postings were all in major cities. The smallest city was Kingston.

To note, we are in mediation. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to come up with a schedule that starts at the 43% midpoint and slope it down to 0 over the guideline duration? My mediator so far seems very fixed on the divorcemate solution which in our case states indeterminate duration.

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Old 11-07-2016, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Let me help you.

Starting Point:
Take your gross income of both your salaries put together divide it in half and that is how much you each get for the rest of your lives.
I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry. I'm worried that this is the case.

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Old 11-07-2016, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
I've been told that Spousal Support (SS) has 2 main components made up of Financial and Compensatory. There is a third component but I don't recall what its called and it is usually not applicable.
- Compensatory
- Non-compensatory (need based)
- Contractual (if you have signed a contract)

Quote:
I'm coming from a 20 year marriage and my x's age and years of service is greater than 65. I noticed that both of these metrics put us in a special category but I'm not really sure what the real impact of that is.
Indefinite duration of support - often until retirement or material change in circumstances.

Quote:
Shared Custody Child Support is in play and since full table over compensates the lower income parent, can this be used to justify zero SS?
The tables look at child support and then spousal support follows. If you are coming from a long term marriage with equal parenting, expect everyone to be look for NDI after spousal support to be 50-50. Recipient range should be 40-50%, where in the range (and it may well be 50%) will be factually driven.

Remember to factor in the tax benefits of the kids. Many people neglect to do this, which is a significant error.
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:55 PM
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So is stripes suggestion of proposing a gently declining application if spousal support not a realistic expectation?

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Old 11-07-2016, 09:00 PM
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Here's another follow up. I've given up half my pension in a lump sum payment. I retire and start drawing what's left of my pension and get another job because, let's face it, how am I gonna afford child support with a half a pension. Is there any way to protect my pension income? The math is easy on this one, if not she gets 3/4 of my pension.

The way it's communicated is that my pension will be reduced by a fixed amount for the rest of eternity. Can that amount be considered the support payment based on the new values?
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Old 11-07-2016, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YGTBFJ View Post
Here's another follow up. I've given up half my pension in a lump sum payment. I retire and start drawing what's left of my pension and get another job because, let's face it, how am I gonna afford child support with a half a pension. Is there any way to protect my pension income? The math is easy on this one, if not she gets 3/4 of my pension.

The way it's communicated is that my pension will be reduced by a fixed amount for the rest of eternity. Can that amount be considered the support payment based on the new values?
The rule of 65 generally states that SS is to be indefinite, with no fixed end point.

So yes, you want to avoid this double dipping situation of dividing your pension, and then still having to pay SS from your remaining half. Do your best to negotiate an end point, or at least a review point, at your retirement, along with other circumstances such as her remarriage or her finding good employment.
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Old 11-08-2016, 01:36 AM
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To further emphasize the point of orleanslawyer you must take into account ALL the additional expenses, tax benefits etc....

Consider all the S7 Expenses, expenses of work, tax deductions, family child benefits, spousal support deductions etc.. etc... and yes the double dippiing.

Then you can try to do a reasonable imputation of income.
Years 0-2
Years 3-5: part time minimum wage
Years 5-10: full-time minimum wage

and refactor your "family" gross income with those numbers

SS in your case is not meant to go down over time. In your case I would assume it is till you die.

SS is privatized welfare, they really don't care about you or your ex. They just don't want her to go on welfare.

Some people just leave the country but they will just take all your assets instead.

Also, the reality is that the sSAG are practically law, so run the numbers and cry yourself to sleep.
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