Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2017, 05:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 327
Ange71727 is on a distinguished road
Default Sole vs joint

Just a question I am wondering: is it common for one parent to decide to seek sole custody if there are major problems with communication and effectively co-parenting, agreeing on decisions, etc. Is there any caselaw on this? Is it common for a judge to split decision making for the purposes of reducing conflict? Ie one parent is responsible for education, the other is responsible for health, etc? Is sole custody really only awarded to one parent if the other one is abusive, using drugs/alcohol etc?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:42 AM
LovingFather32's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,438
LovingFather32 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Unfortunately this has become a standard tactic for some parents to achieve custody in court. "I need sole.. he/she can't communicate". Judges are catching on to this strategy fast and are putting an end to it.

I've read so many cases where one parent actually refuses to communicate properly to agitate the other parent, then documents that parents reaction, claiming they can't communicate. Parallel parenting has become extremely popular.

For example, in cases such as this: https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...&resultIndex=1
Quote:
[67] In the present case, an order giving Ms. Hoffman sole custody of the children would create a real risk that Mr. Hoffman’s involvement with them would be minimized. Courts have recognized that in such situations, parallel parenting may be the appropriate regime, in spite of the conflict between the parents. As the Court of Appeal for Ontario pointed out in Ursic v. Ursic[16] (2006), a parent cannot be the instigator of high conflict and then argue in favour of sole custody, based on the conflict.
Also, has www.ourfamilywizard.com been given a go?

Not to mention, your opinion of bad communication and that of the judges may differ considerably.

In para 72 of the reference above, the judge states:
Quote:
While this requires some measure of communication and cooperation, the court does not apply a standard of perfection. As Quinn, J. remarked in Brook v. Brook, “The cooperation needed is workable, not blissful; adequate, not perfect.”[19]
Also, remember this:

Quote:
A mere statement by one party that there is an inability to communicate will not preclude an order for joint custody.
Also, in terms of parallel parenting:

Quote:
Justice Templeton had held that parallel parenting did not require a cooperative working relationship or even good communication. The objective of parallel parenting was to give the parents equal status, each with distinct rights and responsibilities in relation to specific topics.
In para. 81 it references caselaw stating stuff like:

Quote:
Many trial courts have recognized that joint custody under a parallel parenting regime may be suitable where both parents love the child and should play an active role in the child’s life, yet have difficulty communicating or reaching consensus on the child’s upbringing.
So you see it's not as easy as you think to run in to a court room saying the OP can't communicate and that you need sole. It get's a heck of a lot more complex than that.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 08-12-2017 at 11:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:13 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,754
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default Sole vs joint

Theres also the difficulty of one parent who feels they know best but in reality only make situations worse. Ange, your ex has shown he is incapable of agreeing and uses it as a tool to spite you. If you have concerns it may be in your best interest to have decision making power for health and schooling.

ETA: and before you object LF32, I would point out in your case your ex feels she knows best when in reality you are the one making proper decisions like making sure your child gets to school.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 327
Ange71727 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Theres also the difficulty of one parent who feels they know best but in reality only make situations worse. Ange, your ex has shown he is incapable of agreeing and uses it as a tool to spite you. If you have concerns it may be in your best interest to have decision making power for health and schooling.

ETA: and before you object LF32, I would point out in your case your ex feels she knows best when in reality you are the one making proper decisions like making sure your child gets to school.


We may have a deal (its close but I am likely getting screwed on the child support) but if it all goes south and I'm looking at court I am considering this. I am so tired of the harassing emails. So tired of I'm going to disagree with everything you say just because.
If we do reach a deal and write up a new agreement on consent - can I demand that parallel parenting be put into place and our family wizard etc? He doesn't agree to OFW of course because he doesn't want to pay for it; however I think it's imperative in our situation. Is parallel parenting something that only a judge orders you to do?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2017, 05:35 PM
Rioe's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,175
Rioe will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ange71727 View Post
Is parallel parenting something that only a judge orders you to do?
Pretty much. Think of it this way. If you and your ex could agree enough to determine parallel parenting without a court order, then you do not have the communication deadlocks that make parallel parenting necessary.

No harm in proposing it, and getting the reaction documented though.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:54 PM
mcdreamy's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,382
mcdreamy is on a distinguished road
Default

OP - Are you asking about access, or custody=decision making? I wonder if you are confusing the terms? Joint, sole, parallel - decision making.
__________________
if you attack everyone involved, the common denominator is you. Attributed to OL
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 327
Ange71727 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdreamy View Post
OP - Are you asking about access, or custody=decision making? I wonder if you are confusing the terms? Joint, sole, parallel - decision making.


I'm asking about decision making (custody). We've mostly agreed on the access now. There are just so many contentious issues when communicating. I get a lambasting via email or text at least once a week. I just want the very minimum in communication with him. It's affecting my well being. There are also differences in our beliefs on health related issues, education and sports as well as many day to day issues. It's my understanding that parallel parenting would mean very limited interaction with day to day decisions being the responsibility of the "on duty" parent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:40 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
ensorcelled has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ange71727 View Post
I'm asking about decision making (custody). We've mostly agreed on the access now. There are just so many contentious issues when communicating. I get a lambasting via email or text at least once a week. I just want the very minimum in communication with him. It's affecting my well being. There are also differences in our beliefs on health related issues, education and sports as well as many day to day issues. It's my understanding that parallel parenting would mean very limited interaction with day to day decisions being the responsibility of the "on duty" parent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
First, look into Gray Rock method of communicating. It's saved my sanity.

Second, I put 'by-when' on most of things that require joint communicaiton and there is generally no response on the other end and I end up making the decision. So for our son's birthday, I sent him an idea and date, and he responded with nothing. I followed up two weeks later with 'I haven't heard from you regarding the birthday so if you don't object I will book everything by Friday. Looking forward to seeing you at Lasertag!'
Spoiler: I booked everything by Friday.

Does that help?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:18 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 327
Ange71727 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ensorcelled View Post
First, look into Gray Rock method of communicating. It's saved my sanity.



Second, I put 'by-when' on most of things that require joint communicaiton and there is generally no response on the other end and I end up making the decision. So for our son's birthday, I sent him an idea and date, and he responded with nothing. I followed up two weeks later with 'I haven't heard from you regarding the birthday so if you don't object I will book everything by Friday. Looking forward to seeing you at Lasertag!'

Spoiler: I booked everything by Friday.



Does that help?


I'll look into the Gray Rock. I already try to respond minimally but then he will tell me I am not communicating and turn it into "I'm not informing him of things" because I don't send a thousand emails a week.
He would be the opposite of your ex - if I said I will book it all by Friday unless you object to something, he would 100% find something to object to and turn it into a huge problem.

He used to be exactly like your ex, which is why this is such an issue now. He has realized he screwed up by allowing a certain status quo for the way things are done and having me take care of most kid related things for years. The Birthday example you raise is actually a pertinent one ironically. My kids come to me to plan/book/organize birthdays every year. It's just a given. He has never wanted to take the reins on that and I happily do it. This year when I informed him of what his son would be doing (at son's request) he flipped out and told me I was making unilateral decisions (even though this was his son's own request). I even invited him even though the last party he came to was 6 years ago. It's "known" that I do the classmates party and he does his own thing with family; however it was a big deal this year (with pending court case) that I didn't consult. I offered for us to alternate each year since this now mattered to him and he said he didn't want it to be so "formulaic" which is really code for "I don't want to actually plan and pay for the party, I just want to complain about you doing it".



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:24 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 327
Ange71727 is on a distinguished road
Default

I actually think all the emails from him is about controlling me. If I don't respond in 2 days or so I'll get another one saying "you need to respond". It's like his little way of making me do something he knows I don't want to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
LovingFather32
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Joint versus sole custody..same thing? firhill Divorce & Family Law 12 08-06-2013 01:51 PM
Have Sole Custody - Offer on the Table to Settle Fully but With Joint Custody momto3 Divorce & Family Law 14 06-19-2013 01:13 PM
Weight of Settlement Conference Recommendations - Sole Custody vs. Joint Custody momto3 Divorce & Family Law 12 08-31-2012 11:47 AM
Joint custody - questions & answers (US) first timer Parenting Issues 0 03-19-2011 11:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:56 PM.