Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:08 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Samatha-2000 is on a distinguished road
Smile Separation and Child Support 50/50 and offset.

Hi all
I am just writing to see if I am on right page with my separation with husband.
We created Separation Agreement letter from template from LawDepot.ca.

We will have joint custody, 50 % with me 50 % with him. Simple. We donít have any conflicts, we are in agreement.
I am earning double then he and I am putting in separation agreement that I am paying him 600 $ and he is paying me 1000$ every moth. Somebody on this forums suggested doing like this instead of mentioning only offset of 400 $ what has to be paid.

After he paid me offset we are splitting any additional cost RESP , ski trips ETC to 50-50 %.

Does he have to pay me this offset even if we have 50/50 % shared custody? I think answer is yes, but it is better double check with somebody from these forums.
We balanced salaries with this offset and after that we share 50/50 % additional cost ? Am I correct with this?

Does anybody have slight clue how much would cost if I bring finished Separation Agreement to lawyers for independent review? We are talking in hundred thousand or ten thousands ?
Any clue or statistics from field about court making invalid Separation Agreement because we did not have Independent Legal Advice. If that number is 20-30 % I would definitely look for lawyer, but if number is 1-2 % I would not.
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,040
Berner_Faith will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
We will have joint custody, 50 % with me 50 % with him. Simple. We donít have any conflicts, we are in agreement.
Good for you guys!

Quote:
I am earning double then he and I am putting in separation agreement that I am paying him 600 $ and he is paying me 1000$ every moth. Somebody on this forums suggested doing like this instead of mentioning only offset of 400 $ what has to be paid.
Please clarify... if you are making double, you should be paying more in CS, not the other way around...I assume this was just a typo?


Quote:
After he paid me offset we are splitting any additional cost RESP , ski trips ETC to 50-50 %.

Does he have to pay me this offset even if we have 50/50 % shared custody? I think answer is yes, but it is better double check with somebody from these forums.
We balanced salaries with this offset and after that we share 50/50 % additional cost ? Am I correct with this?
Expenses that fall under normal CS should be split 50-50, clothing, pizza lunches, inexpensive school trips, however Section 7 & extraordinary expenses should be split proportionate to income. Depending on what your incomes are, most things may not be extraordinary, but if his income is only $25K and yours is $50K, a ski trip that costs $2000 can be seen as extraordinary and it would be a lot harder for him to manage the $1000 than it would you, which is why it should be split by income, 33% him and 67% you...however CS should be factored in, so if he is getting $400 a month in CS that could bring his income to around $30k, meaning the split should be 37.5% him and 62.5% you... it really is a numbers game, but sometimes splitting the costs 50-50 is not valid, even in a 50-50 situation.

Quote:
Does anybody have slight clue how much would cost if I bring finished Separation Agreement to lawyers for independent review? We are talking in hundred thousand or ten thousands ?
Any clue or statistics from field about court making invalid Separation Agreement because we did not have Independent Legal Advice. If that number is 20-30 % I would definitely look for lawyer, but if number is 1-2 % I would not.
Cost is dependent on you... a couple hours with a lawyer could be upwards of $1000, which will be cheap compared to the legal costs you both would pay if you allowed a lawyer to try and "get you a better deal". You both should get independent legal advice.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:37 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,724
HammerDad will become famous soon enough
Default

Re - Ski Trip.

It really depends on the trip. I mean, if the kid is in competitive skiing and the trip is in relation to that, it is an s7 expense should be split proportionally to income.

If one parent is taking the kid on a ski trip/vacation, that is on the parent who is going and not a s7 expense. That is a gift from that parent to the child and does not involve the other parent.

If it is an option school trip, than it may fall under s7, but not a guarantee.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:32 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,563
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
We will have joint custody, 50 % with me 50 % with him. Simple. We donít have any conflicts, we are in agreement.
Full joint custody with equal access (50-50).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
I am earning double then he and I am putting in separation agreement that I am paying him 600 $ and he is paying me 1000$ every moth.
I would double check this as if you are the higher income earner you should be paying the other party, on the offset of both full table amounts of child support, the difference of 1000-600 which is $400.

Is it correct to assume that you pay the offset of the CS to the other parent in the amount of $400 per month?

You can also leverage the following website, which is provided by Divorcemate to double check the exact amounts based on both parents line 150:

MySupportCalculator.ca

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
Somebody on this forums suggested doing like this instead of mentioning only offset of 400 $ what has to be paid.
You should be identifying in your agreement that you are full joint custodial parents with equal access and residency shared 50-50.

That child support will be paid and determined using the offset method as defined in the guide lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
After he paid me offset we are splitting any additional cost RESP , ski trips ETC to 50-50 %.
You can both pay into your own RESP for the chlidren. When it comes time to pay then, that matters. I wouldn't recommend coming to any agreement about RESP investment. It is great if you can but, situations change, incomes change etc... If you are both reasonable people and are child focused you should be able to independently of each other save the appriorate funds for school without needing an agreement.

Also, a court will only really deal with the S.7 on this when the child actually goes to school and needs the support. No judge will order someone to invest into something that the child may never use. The child may not go to school etc... They don't order on the "what if".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
Does he have to pay me this offset even if we have 50/50 % shared custody?
If we go from your above statement, you should be paying him offset if you make double.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
I think answer is yes, but it is better double check with somebody from these forums.

We balanced salaries with this offset and after that we share 50/50 % additional cost ? Am I correct with this?
You really need to understand what defines a Special and Extraordinary expense. (S.7 Expense)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
Does anybody have slight clue how much would cost if I bring finished Separation Agreement to lawyers for independent review? We are talking in hundred thousand or ten thousands ?
It all depends on the quality of the template leveraged, currency with common law and if it is up to date. It all depends on the lawyer providing ILA too. My finger in the air estimate is that you will need at minimum 7.5 hours of time with the lawyer at minimum to get "proper" ILA.

Most "good" lawyers are between 250-500 an hour.

$250 (per jour) * 7.5 (hours) * 1.13 (HST) = $2,118.75
$500 (per hour) * 7.5 (hours) * 1.13 (HST) = $4237.50

So, it would be reasonable, in my honest opinion, to expect to have to pay an up front retainer on a SA from $2,500 to $5000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
Any clue or statistics from field about court making invalid Separation Agreement because we did not have Independent Legal Advice. If that number is 20-30 % I would definitely look for lawyer, but if number is 1-2 % I would not.
There are plenty of examples but, they need to consider undue influence. As you have joint custody and joint residency in your agreement, there isn't any animosity probably, no incidents of intimate partner abuse against either party, or power imbalance the argument is hard to make before a court when enforcing the agreement.

The other thing to consider is, that if the agreement does something that obstructs the rights of the children or a third party not subject to the agreement then, it would not be worth the paper it is written on.

Simple example, any SA where the parents agree to no child support being paid would be overturned in a second by a court as child support is the "right of the child" and not the "right of the parents".

Good Luck!
Tayken
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2013, 04:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,692
OrleansLawyer is a jewel in the roughOrleansLawyer is a jewel in the roughOrleansLawyer is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
It all depends on the lawyer providing ILA too. My finger in the air estimate is that you will need at minimum 7.5 hours of time with the lawyer at minimum to get "proper" ILA.

Most "good" lawyers are between 250-500 an hour.
ILA depends upon the complexity of the issues and assets involved.

While it can easily take 7.5 (or more) hours to go through all of the information and have frank discussions about rights and obligations, it can also in certain circumstances occur in fewer than 3 hours total.

If the issues are not complicated you can save money by going to a less experienced lawyer. Fees in the 150-200 range are common for lawyers with under 4 years experience, or 200-250 for lawyers with 5-9 years experience.

Pay as much as necessary for the least expensive services to do a sufficient job. Keep in mind that you get what you pay for.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:41 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,563
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
ILA depends upon the complexity of the issues and assets involved.

While it can easily take 7.5 (or more) hours to go through all of the information and have frank discussions about rights and obligations, it can also in certain circumstances occur in fewer than 3 hours total.

If the issues are not complicated you can save money by going to a less experienced lawyer. Fees in the 150-200 range are common for lawyers with under 4 years experience, or 200-250 for lawyers with 5-9 years experience.

Pay as much as necessary for the least expensive services to do a sufficient job. Keep in mind that you get what you pay for.
I would say that this is a totally excellent recommendation and should be considered in light of the poster's screen name as well.

Complexity of the situation drives the time it takes for a lawyer to go through everything and make sure you are advised properly. (See above quote in bold which I agree with 100%.)

Just to poke at OrleansLawyer in fun... Children are not really an "asset" but the "responsibility" of parents and the most complex and confusing element of any SA for most parties to a SA. If there are no children involved in the matter (no custody and access to agree upon) then, the estimates provided are quite reasonable.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Last edited by Tayken; 01-24-2013 at 12:44 AM.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:40 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,692
OrleansLawyer is a jewel in the roughOrleansLawyer is a jewel in the roughOrleansLawyer is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Children are not really an "asset"
I agree, but the courts tend to frown on arguments that they are liabilities...
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:59 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,448
Mess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the rough
Default

Because they are a capital investment.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,472
dinkyface will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
Any clue or statistics from field about court making invalid Separation Agreement because we did not have Independent Legal Advice. If that number is 20-30 % I would definitely look for lawyer, but if number is 1-2 % I would not.
Just to be clear, it is not the court that 'makes it invalid'. It is when your EX changes their mind about what they agreed to, and then manages to convince the court that they signed something unreasonable as a result of not understand their rights (and/or because they were coerced/intimidated/blackmailed into signing).

YOU get ILA to protect your EX, and your EX gets ILA to protect YOU.

One specific thing - CRA (Canada revenue agency) has its own rules on who will claim the CCTB. In your situation, they require that you will both share the claim i.e. you alternate years, or they split each year 6mo - 6 mo. So stating anything else in your agreement would be invalid.
There may be other examples of this sort of thing - possibly for pensions (e.g. indicating one party will cash out half of their pension, when the pension plan is locked in)
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:32 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,563
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Because they are a capital investment.
With a year-over-year operational expense for parents of love, time, patience and understanding.
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sample Separation Agreement NBDad Financial Issues 48 10-23-2013 10:20 PM
Eligible dependent tax and my child support situation ConcernedDad Divorce & Family Law 10 04-02-2012 11:43 AM
Reinstating Child Support maggie99 Financial Issues 14 09-01-2010 01:47 PM
Spousal Equivalent for CRA Cobourg Divorce & Family Law 21 01-14-2010 08:43 AM
new here & need advice Please??? momofnl Divorce & Family Law 4 03-25-2007 03:36 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:54 PM.