Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2012, 12:54 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
hardtowatchinjustice is on a distinguished road
Default Separation Agreement - No Financial Disclosure

I am writing this, if for anything else to help anyone not to make the blunders I have made. I'll post this and then after post the lessons learned.

But I don't think this is finished yet. This may get a little disjointed but I'll try to keep the facts in order. They have a name for this case in the Court we have been visiting because of the number of errors in all of this.

Signed a separation agreement in her lawyers office without legal advice.
Why? Because she called, e-mailed and kept visiting my place of work. I thought that I could renegotiate the agreement at divorce.
She wrote the agreement with a friend who was a law clerk.
There is nothing in this agreement for me. I gave her the house because my son was still living at home. She also went after half of my pension and also took all my inheritance items from my family. Some came into the marriage and other things came through time.

At date of evaluation, in her lawyers office I had brought my pay stub to declare my income. When I asked for hers, she said "It's none of your F'in business." I asked her lawyer about it and she said, "we are acting on Mrs. B's behalf only" "does she not have to declare her income?" "You'll have to get your own legal advice on this" (missed the significance of that line)

Finding out it's not that easy to renegotiate.

I was in the military for 21 years and retired about 10 years ago.
I am working still at another position.
When I retired she was the main wage earner with the exception of adding my pension to my income. Which apparently is a family asset. Her wages at time of separation were at least three times what I made, but there was no financial disclosure at date of valuation.

I put her through university and helped her further her career by making better choices for her.
We have one son he is now 26 at the time of separation he was 21.

She was and is still covered on my employers benefits plan due to a court order. This court order also had us divide the pension in accordance with the Pension Benefits Division Act though she had worded the agreement wrong in the first place. It was worded that i pay her 50% of the pension from the net earnings even though she wasn't entitled to 50% based upon the amount of time we were married while I served.

I originally left the matrimonial home at the end of June 2007. I lived primarily in provincial campsites. I came back for a month of hell in August . She would stand outside my bedroom door screaming at the top of her lungs until 2 am. It's no wonder I ended up on stress leave.

So moving forward, In 2008 we went to court to have the DND deposit the 50% of the money directly into her bank account. This is because I was late forwarding her the money by 3 days when I was out of country on holidays. I still hadn't obtained legal advice. In fact the order we got was marked as a final court order. It ordered me to have DND pay her 50% of the net amount of the pension to her bank account directly. (something like that) DND advised me they could not pay it out that way unless it was either maintenance, spousal or child support. The agreement states it is none of these and they said because of that they could do nothing. (I should've clued in something was wrong) I advised her of this and continued making the monthly payments. I found out later she made three attempts of her own to get the pension split properly from DND.

This I attempted to do in May 2008, this was the first time I received a signed copy of the agreement and it was a photocopy from her. NOT her lawyers office.

Then in the spring of 2009 an amendment to the agreement shows up in my mailbox to split the pension properly. Worded exactly as DND requires it. I did not sign it. Hoping when the time came I could keep my pension.
I told her I would not sign another thing without proper legal advise, so i kept up the payments because she threatened to take me to court.
Also because I had asked for some of my families items and she said "I would have to pay her for them."

When I left in 2007 I had moved into a one bedroom apartment above a store in my town and didn't have room for my things and thought she would let me have them later. (another mistake) I have the original agreement that I left her lawyers office with or at least the original draft
copy. When I got the photocopy there was a schedule attached to the agreement with all my inheritance items on it. No there were no page numbers ever on the agreement let alone initials on each item saying we understood them. Just a signature page at the back that looks like when I signed my mortgage.

So moving right along. The summer of 2009, I lost the time share we had because of the financial burden I was under to maintain it. It was based upon our two salaries and I couldn't keep it on my own so it went into foreclosure. (Oh this was all I got out of the marriage and a paragraph saying I could buy a car with her discount at the dealership she managed)
There was no equity in the time share. To get her off of the deed I had to buy an upgrade at the resort I stayed at. This transaction was done in fall 2008 before the big crash. (another lucky day)

So Feb 2010, I decided it was time to move on with my life and file for divorce. I finally had 400 bucks to talk to a lawyer. It was on a credit card but hey I did it.

We were still talking somewhat at this time so the lawyer said write her a letter and see if she will give you some of your things back. She wanted more! She wanted to stay on my benefits or she wanted me to pay for her benefits for life through her employer. She wanted me to sign over my death benefit on the pension. She won't give back my grandmother's diamond ring because she said "I gifted it to her". I did get two pieces from her and then things fell apart. There are still quite a few items that total over $75,000

I went to a family law lawyer. Spent another $500 dollars. She told me to stop paying her the $600 a month from the pension. This is when I found out she wasn't entitled to half because of the amount of time married. She also said whats the point she has to pay you back anything you pay her because her portion whatever the courts decided is protected by the Pension Benefits Division Act. Made sense to me at the time. Also that I should take her off of my benefits plan because its fraud and she makes at least 3 to 4 times my salary. She could afford to have her own policy.

I couldn't afford her retainer which was $6,000 right away so I ventured out on my own. (whoops) I learned I am not a very good lawyer. She ended up putting me in contempt of court. I needed the rest of the pension anyway to make ends meet. I was close to bankruptcy and now I am there.

So the judge made another final order, ordering me to pay 575 per month and to put her back on my benefits package. There was no order saying it was maintenance. Until the clerks office typed it up that way. Next thing I know I have an order coming from FRO to garnishee my wages! This was the PENSION PAYMENT! That in the agreement says this is not spousal, maintenance or child support! He did clear the contempt charges.

Neat eh? Ya it gets messier.
I didn't comply with the order. I got the 6000 together by getting a loan at 34% interest because of the unsecured debt that I am still carrying from the separation. (I haven't put that number in yet.) The lawyer with the great ideas had to deal with a bigger case so I ended up with the firms younger lawyer. I figured same firm same mantra. Another whoops. (I am amazed I still have a sense of humour even though it's from the gallows about now)

He negotiated that she get 145,000 out of my pension which is the evaluation she had from DND less what I had paid her for 4+ years then I get the added bonus of keeping her on my employers benefit package until september even though I told him I wanted no more contact with her. He felt going into the court room that the judge would order her back on the benefits because I had taken her off earlier. She doesn't need them this is a control mechanism over me.

So here is where this stands right now.

We just came out of court 7 days ago.

So she got the $313,000 home. (and has purchased another property now)
Roughly $125,000 of my pension.
About $75,000 of inheritance items.
Benefits for 6 more months.
I took approximately $58,000 worth of debt from the marriage, which I just keep refinancing, and she got $18,000.

The minutes of settlement just issued is supposed to allow my motion for divorce to go uncontested in September 2012. Knowing this woman I have my doubts it will happen.

No judge has listened to my motion of change of circumstances. I feel this has been a severe case of gender bias and the court to this day does not know what she makes for a living.

I am in counselling for bankruptcy as i can no longer meet my financial obligations because of this agreement and I feel like my lawyer just wanted to wash his hands of this case.

If anyone has any suggestions that might help I'd appreciate it because time is running out. I am on my own again because of financial restraints.

I will be summing this up tomorrow with "hard" lessons learned tomorrow night.

I tried to keep this short but.....
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2012, 10:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,810
Pursuinghappiness will become famous soon enough
Default

Good lawd.

You handed over all financial documents without getting hers disclosed.

You signed a separation agreement that her "friend" wrote with zero legal advice.

You abandon the marital home to live on campsites, then you move back in and let her harrass you in the home and don't record it or call the police.

You somewhere after 3 years (from 2007 to 2010) FINALLY go a lawyer to get legal advice after following this sep agreement, leaving the matrimonial home, giving up inheritance items.

And you say this crap??!??:

Quote:
... I feel this has been a severe case of gender bias
What???!!!!????

How is it every woman's fault that you claim to have handed her over $500,000 worth of assets but couldn't get a lawyer for 3 years because of a retainer???? Are you kidding me?

Seriously....you can whine all you want but you did this to yourself by not acting in your best interest. And THAT is not gender bias.

Grow up and take responsibility for your own actions.

Edit:
By the way, your screen name is ridiculous. Right now, I want to change mine to "hardtoreadstupidity"

Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 03-30-2012 at 10:54 AM. Reason: ...just rolled my eyes so hard into the back of my head, I fell off my chair and missed a sentence...
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2012, 11:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,726
HammerDad will become famous soon enough
Default

Have to agree with PH here. You screwed up on virtually every level imaginable. Outside of punching your ex in the face in front of the judge, I fail to see how you could screwed up much worse.

You should never have left the house.

You should have worn a digital voice recorder on you at all times in her presense and in the house.

You should never have signed any document without independant legal advice.

You should never have given her a cent for spousal support without a separation agreement or court order requiring you to.

You should never have given her any of the inheritance as it isn't matrimonial property unless you were dumb enough to co-mingle it.

You pay child support, based off of your income and the guidelines if there were children.

But yeah, I bet your lawyer had a rough time as you pretty much made their job 8x harder by your previous actions. Once you agree to something it is hard to stop that rock from rolling, especially when your ex has ZERO incentive to agree with you as you've already given her everything she wants.

Sucks to say this but dude, your list is like a guideline for what not to do. I feel for you and your situation, but had you sought out a lawyer from day one it is substantially more likely you wouldn't be stuck the way you are.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2012, 05:12 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Peterborough/Kawarthas
Posts: 13
Age Smies is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Age Smies
Default

These days the best thing to do is attend a FLIC at any court house, talk to the mediators and the advice lawyers. Think about it and act carefully.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2012, 05:15 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Peterborough/Kawarthas
Posts: 13
Age Smies is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Age Smies
Default

Just to be honest, I am an accredited family mediator and I hear ths stuff all the time at the court house. I strongly believe no-one should ever ignore any action taken by a former "loving" spouse. Most divorces don't need a lawyer, but everyone needs access to legal advice. That's why we have FLIC centres.
For further information, feel free to check out aplus-mediation.com or call 877-463-6097
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:41 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,569
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
Good lawd.

You handed over all financial documents without getting hers disclosed.

You signed a separation agreement that her "friend" wrote with zero legal advice.

You abandon the marital home to live on campsites, then you move back in and let her harrass you in the home and don't record it or call the police.

You somewhere after 3 years (from 2007 to 2010) FINALLY go a lawyer to get legal advice after following this sep agreement, leaving the matrimonial home, giving up inheritance items.

And you say this crap??!??:



What???!!!!????

How is it every woman's fault that you claim to have handed her over $500,000 worth of assets but couldn't get a lawyer for 3 years because of a retainer???? Are you kidding me?

Seriously....you can whine all you want but you did this to yourself by not acting in your best interest. And THAT is not gender bias.

Grow up and take responsibility for your own actions.

Edit:
By the way, your screen name is ridiculous. Right now, I want to change mine to "hardtoreadstupidity"
I agree 100% with PH.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 01:35 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
hardtowatchinjustice is on a distinguished road
Default

Lawyer even said it was gender bias. They don't deal with many cases where the woman makes three times as much as the man. End of story.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 01:46 PM
billm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,430
billm is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardtowatchinjustice View Post
Lawyer even said it was gender bias. They don't deal with many cases where the woman makes three times as much as the man. End of story.
It must be dark with your head so deep in the sand.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 01:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,810
Pursuinghappiness will become famous soon enough
Default

Ohhhhh...well if the lawyer said it...it MUST be true.

Lawyers are always completely honest and never tell you what you want to hear in order to line their own pockets.

You're right...as a woman, its my fault that you made incredibly irresponsible decisions during your divorce...you are totally not to blame.

(ok..my sarcasm quota has been exceeded for the day)
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 02:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,810
Pursuinghappiness will become famous soon enough
Default

By the way, this is the same sharp-as-a-whip lawyer that you got after 3 years and who couldn't figure out to file a motion to get her financials disclosed?

The same one who said that she apparently made 3x's more because you supported her education and didn't tell you that you may be eligible for SS?

Yea...that's a credible source.

(ok..now my sarcasm meter actually blew up...)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
forcing financial disclosure after separation agreement signed? m_and_c Financial Issues 1 08-15-2011 03:26 PM
Separation Agreement Mouse_117 Divorce & Family Law 6 09-18-2010 04:37 PM
NO financial status on the separation agreement? MissGirl Divorce & Family Law 1 10-09-2009 04:13 PM
Separation Agreement - Financial Disclosure About_Time Divorce & Family Law 1 05-14-2007 03:33 PM
When is a SEPARATION AGREEMENT an Agreement dvr Divorce & Family Law 1 06-15-2006 07:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:07 AM.