Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:39 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 19
Karma2016 is on a distinguished road
Default

Piggyback, I was a working mom at the beginning of our 23 year marriage. I worked for a school board and had a potentially nice career ahead of me. While pregnant with baby number 3 while our oldest was only three (3 kids in three years), my "Wasband", an employment lawyer, advised me to take an attractive buy-out the board was offering as it merged with another. In fact, he was my independent legal advice the board paid for before I could accept the buy-out.

So I stayed home with the kids. There was no need for daycare costs and latchkey, and Wasband left the house at 5:00 am and returned at 6:00 pm every week day coming home to a perfectly cooked meal. And he went to the office Sunday nights. To this day he still does this. He never had to adjust his schedule, could travel at leisure when necessary, and build himself a solid practice.

He did NOTHING at home, not even the yard work. Not even shovelling the snow. So please don't tell me he paid for my shelter and food like I should be grateful. It was an agreed partnership and he discouraged me to find work once the children were in school because that would have meant him having to be more hands on at home.

I am now 52 and have not worked in an office setting (I was a paralegal) for 18 years, since before the internet was a thing. I am not very marketable and will never find employment to be self-sufficient to the standard of living I have been.

Staying at home with three babies was not fun, nor is it a cop out.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2017, 01:09 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 196
piggybanktoex is on a distinguished road
Default

I need to heed my own advise and stay away from this board.

My divorce is over, except for the scars.

Good luck to you and your wasband.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:10 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 139
ifonlyihadknown is on a distinguished road
Default

Piggy Bank,

I feel your pain as I am in a similar situation.

"in so far as practicable, promote the economic self-sufficiency of each spouse within a reasonable period of time."

The self-sufficiency objective in the Divorce Act is a joke, especially when combined with the "Rule of 65" that says spousal support is "indefinite". Once spousal support exceeds some amount that there is no incentive for the receiving spouse to work, there is no incentive (and no requirement) to become self-sufficient.

It's too late for me, and I imagine for you too, so all I can do is discourage anyone thinking of marriage as much as possible before they fall into the same trap.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:59 AM
arabian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 9,911
arabian will become famous soon enough
Default

I was 52 when our marriage ended. I "wasted" more than 3 years dealing with disposing of our business while ex continued on with his life. Yes it was determined that ours had been a 30-year "traditional" marriage and I was therefore entitled to indefinite SS. As it should be. Sad thing is while I did receive substantial SS for several years, it ended up being used for paying debt a/o going to lawyer as ex kept me in court for 7 years after the divorce with his wasteful, pointless attempts at having the SS eliminated.

Since end of my divorce I have indeed worked. I still put in my 40 - 44 hrs/week. I pay taxes, CPP and EI like anyone else. I plan/hope to work for the next 4 or 5 years or beyond. I continue to be entitled to SS (whether I work or not). I have, this past 6 months, given my ex a reprieve from paying me anything as he has, by choice, not worked and instead plays "driving miss daisy" for his g/f who has some health issues. My ex starts to receive his CPP and OAS and 50% of it will come to me to address arrears. I can have the SS reinstated anytime by way of a simple fax sent in to maintenance enforcement.

Life is about choices. My ex chose to behave in a manner which led to the end of our long-term marriage. My ex chose to drain our company bank accounts and left me holding the bag w.r.t. corporate CRA tax debt. My ex chose to take me to court after divorce... repeatedly.... which caused me to essentially blow through any remaining crumbs of our assets from the marriage (which I could locate).

I am most certainly self-sufficient and always have been. Of course, my standard of living doesn't come close to the one enjoyed prior to divorce. However, I count myself fortunate as I will not be nurse-maid to my ex as he advances through old age. Self-sufficiency calculation isn't the end-all at the conclusion of all marriages. SS is determined on a case-by-case basis - this I cannot stress enough.

I recall, at our divorce (JDR) hearing, the judge and lawyers having a lively discussion of my age etc. I was a bit put-off when all these people were discussing me like a) I wasn't there and b) my age precluded me from obtaining a major career. I kept my mouth shut as I knew my lawyer (and judge) were merely looking out for my best interests. However, in reflecting upon the judge's remarks I have to say she was correct in that it was "unlikely" that at age 52 I would see any financial benefit of returning to university (costly) to complete a graduate degree. I suppose if my ex was a typical, well-behaving ex, who sincerely wished me well... I might be currently earning 6-figure salary today. Nope, my ex was an ahole who instead was determined that I would not be able to enjoy the substantial SS he was forced to pay. This is just one of many mistakes he made post-divorce. The 3 years I spent immediately after our divorce I would have much preferred to have been at university. I could (nothing is certain) quite possibly be enjoying a high-paying career today.

If someone is able to retrain and re-enter the workforce (even at age 52) I would recommend it. Many people continue to work into their 70s. 60 is the new 40 I say!
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:02 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 72
Aghast is on a distinguished road
Default

The system is very lenient toward people who are not self-sufficient.

I guess the take away from this is; marry in your pay grade, and don't let anyone stay home even if their net monthly income will be $5 after day care. It seems silly, until you get divorced.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:18 AM
arabian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 9,911
arabian will become famous soon enough
Default

I worked throughout our marriage (outside our home and/or as partner in business). I most definitely utilized daycare even when I wasn't working. My ex did not do anything around the house (we had gardener). We also employed a housekeeper for some years. I did ALL cooking, laundry and was the social organizer... I made my ex's life wonderful. He didn't even shop for his own underwear or shop for gifts for his own family. I visited his relatives when they were ill or in the hospital. I did it all. In 30 years my ex ironed his shirts on (1) occasion. In last home we lived in ex didn't know we had central vac as he asked what the long hose was for when we were moving out. We didn't own a lawnmower for 20 years. Both my ex and I enjoyed fruits of our labor and traveled quite often. We both enjoyed membership in an exclusive golf course. For a few years my ex loved to brag how he ran his business from the golf course.

My takeway - NEVER go into business with your partner. NEVER NEVER NEVER
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2017, 12:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,809
Pursuinghappiness will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma2016 View Post
Piggyback, I was a working mom at the beginning of our 23 year marriage. I worked for a school board and had a potentially nice career ahead of me. While pregnant with baby number 3 while our oldest was only three (3 kids in three years), my "Wasband", an employment lawyer, advised me to take an attractive buy-out the board was offering as it merged with another. In fact, he was my independent legal advice the board paid for before I could accept the buy-out.

So I stayed home with the kids. There was no need for daycare costs and latchkey, and Wasband left the house at 5:00 am and returned at 6:00 pm every week day coming home to a perfectly cooked meal. And he went to the office Sunday nights. To this day he still does this. He never had to adjust his schedule, could travel at leisure when necessary, and build himself a solid practice.

He did NOTHING at home, not even the yard work. Not even shovelling the snow. So please don't tell me he paid for my shelter and food like I should be grateful. It was an agreed partnership and he discouraged me to find work once the children were in school because that would have meant him having to be more hands on at home.

I am now 52 and have not worked in an office setting (I was a paralegal) for 18 years, since before the internet was a thing. I am not very marketable and will never find employment to be self-sufficient to the standard of living I have been.

Staying at home with three babies was not fun, nor is it a cop out.
Ugh, this post. This is precisely the reason why so many men are afraid of women and choose not to marry decent, hard-working women.

First, when you don't work all day, your job is to take care of the house. You're not commuting or working all day and taking care of a house doesn't take a full-day. It takes, on average, a couple hours. Cooking takes about another hour. I know...cause I've worked full-time and still take care of 90% of the house tasks and all the cooking and I did 100% of everything when I was single. I know a lot of women that do. So to have the expectation that a working person is going to support a needy dependent AND then come home and take care of the house is ridiculous.

Second, the decision to stay home for years and years....long past the time the kids were in school wasn't just his decision, it was yours too. And making adult decisions comes with risk. The risk for you is that your marriage could end and you are going to have a lifestyle change because you made the irresponsible decision to sit around and not earn an income or get work experience. I assume you're not going over to clean his new house or cook dinner for him every day now...so why should he have to pay you from his hard work for the rest of his life. Making dumb decisions comes with risks....and that you think you don't have to now assume that risk is also ridiculous.

Third, you CAN work. In fact, normal women enjoy and relish the feeling of dignity that comes with self-reliance. You may not walk into a perfect career at this point but so what? There is no shame in working. I was raised with that principle and teach that to my girls everyday. My mom had 5 kids, was single most of my adult life and worked full-time into her 60s at a bank. Cleaning the toliets everyday and doing it well is preferable over the shame of sitting around on your ass all day begging someone else for money. They are looking for workers everywhere and its long past time for you to recognize what it actually takes to earn a living. Then maybe you'd have some appreciation and perspective on other people's money.

Lastly, your entitlement attitude is absurd and pathetic. No one...NO ONE...deserves a "lifestyle" based on someone else's hard work. You've reminded me of how lucky I am that my mom always impressed on us the necessity of working hard and relying on no one. And as a mother, I've taught my girls to act like adults and not leech off of anyone...certainly not a man. There is dignity and pride in earning a living. And if they ever become mothers, they have the duty to provide for their children...especially financially. Financial burdens don't just fall on men...they fall on both adult parents. Otherwise, with no man around...everything falls apart.

I'm glad to see the attitudes of young women changing from this toxic mindset. It can't happen soon enough. And to men who've been financially abused by women like this...I'm sorry. Not all of us have this mindset. There's a lot of good decent women out there who want to be real partners and aren't looking to take advantage of men.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2017, 03:24 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 19
Karma2016 is on a distinguished road
Default

Pursuinghappiness, Are you calling me a woman who is not hard-working because we agreed for me to stay home and raise our kids while my husband focused on his career?

Do you think all I did was housework and cook? My neighbours always commmented on how hard I worked at home; work which was not typical of a housewife from cutting trees to shovelling and spreading 10 yards of mulch. Backbreaking work. As well, I was and still am a very active volunteer in the community, a caregiver for my father and was for my mother-in-law. You make it sound as if I'm a Stepford wife or something and had countless available hours daily.

You are very judgmental. You have no idea how big of a home we owned, how large our property was, and the day-to-day activities our children were involved in. My husband appreciated at that time that I was home to manage it all without him having to rearrange his schedules and/or lift a finger.

And, I do have a job. It pays me minimum wage. I am now limited physically due to health issues the type of job I can do. Please stop insinuating I am lazy, and entitled. And we will have to disagree what lifestyle I am "entitled" to. My husband worked long hours and so did I.

My arrangement with my husband was decided by both of us once our third child was born. We had a "real" partnership as you say. We both worked hard to raise three amazing smart hard-working children.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:07 AM.