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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2015, 08:50 AM
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Nurse_Lisa is on a distinguished road
Question Self Rep on 3rd Case conference - Help Needed

Hello: Im new to this forum but have read a lot of threads over the last year. It seems like a great place for support and knowledge.

Ok, so here is my background and issue:

My ex and I have a 10 D, whom is absolutely amazing.
-We have never been married and broke up before she was born.
-We agreed to Joint Guardianship and Joint Custody with Master Joyce model.
-First year or so we went to court several times and made the above agreement and agreed to a lessor amount of CS. Ex remarried and went back to school.
-We used FJC's and did kind of ok without out court.
-In 2011 my ex voluntarily initiated an increase in CS but wanted to decrease daycare. We went through this for 5 months back and forth and I relented as I was in school and was subsidized for part of her daycare.
-in 2013 ex made a comment about overtime working so I requested his income tax for the last 3 years, to which he refused.
-Needless to say the little respect we had for each other evaporated over the course of the next 2 years: I lost daycare subsidy as I finish school, our daughter started showing signs of a learning disability at school, and started developing anxiety and self confidence issues.
-She is currently in tutoring (as requested by school), counselling and daycare.
-I pay for all of it, except $29 (his protion) for a $375 bill per month for daycare.

I got a lawyer and made an application (over a year ago) to court for a review of CS for 2012-present and S.7 from loss of subsidy to present for counselling, tutoring and daycare (all of which I attempted to discuss with him before making decisions, I have the emails). His counter application: Change of residence for her to live with I'm (I've have been primary residence for 10 Y), change in guardianship, child support from me for 2, yes TWO children (we have only 1) and change in my parenting time to every other weekend.

Ok fast forward-2 Case Conferences later: One order agreeing to current CS guidelines and S.7 expenses for daycare and counselling but not tutoring. No amounts included as they had not given us up to date financial disclosure. Schedule set for summer visitation (50/50 for summer) and guidelines for our daughter to attend counselling and tutoring for 8/10 weeks (she almost failed grade 4 reading and writing). My ex still refuses to take her tutoring and has only set 1 counselling appointment, so now the counsellor is fully booked. To me this is a breech of the consent order.

My lawyer was did very little in these CC's with me doing most of the discussion. The judge did not seem to remember us (the second one) for lack of taking notes and was more worried about us settling then the issues. So we tabled a settlement proposal as this was taking a toll on our daughter and myself: very fair, only thing was they had to get back to us with a yes or no soon as I had limited time with my lawyer (due to lack of funds). We offered for me to pay tutoring past and present until June 2016, and offered only a portion (about 40%) of arrears we figured he owed, plus more time parenting time for him with some other issues he wanted.

They agreed, but not agreed. (Huh?) they wanted to change some issues, but wanted to wait the remaining month until the 3rd CC. We asked for clarification on issues and their response made that made little sense (IE a different schedule then the one we set in previous order, confirmation of one counselling appointment, but more in the "works"). I fired my lawyer when she refused to write a letter to opposing counsel and said the CC was a waste of her time, but she wanted to push for a settlement.

SORRY this is long: Now I am self-rep and going to my CC with a new judge on Wed. I contacted his lawyer for clarification and attempting to get his agreement in writing: well they tried to sneak extra things in the agreement. After reading not his forum, I did not know we had to file a CC brief and it is too late. Please any suggestions for upcoming CC??? The more I go over the issues the more I think Im being bullied into things that are not best for our daughter. Any suggestions help!

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2015, 09:08 PM
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 32
mathewoliviera is on a distinguished road

You may still hand in your CC however it will be up to the judge to decide whether to accept it or not. As for the conferences they attempt to get you to settle as that is what they prefer over trial and that is the purpose of the CC.

I would just fight and let them know that you've been trying to get your daughter help where he has not so much.

If you do not feel that the 2 of your can settle then perhaps push for a trial?
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:13 PM
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Nurse_Lisa is on a distinguished road

Thanks! Yes, I know they want us to settle. I just feel like Im giving so much of her benefits away. He opposes tutoring cause of cost, so I accepted to pay for tutoring and boom he was happy. Its just it is our 3rd one with no trial.
And might I add the third one with no Financial statement. I received an email from his lawyer just now and he is being somewhat vague. "we appreciate you want to keep the offer in its entirety." No answers to dates of appointments, vacations or even if they actually accept. I am getting really frustrated with this and am very close to just pulling the offer as I do not believe it is in her best interest. I just don't think the judge will like that.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:38 AM
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The Iceberg is on a distinguished road

in 2013 ex made a comment about overtime working so I requested his income tax for the last 3 years, to which he refused

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2015, 10:10 AM
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Nurse_Lisa is on a distinguished road

Please let me rephrase that. That whole sentence was shorten from several interactions and I did not want make that post any longer.

I guess I failed to keep it pretty short and to the point anyway.

The whole exchange happened with me discussing with him the loss of our daycare subsidy as I had just finished nursing school and started work. His reply was "not my problem, I pay the base amount". I tried to explain that while we had lower than guideline amounts while he was in school, now I would like to go by the law and asked for some help with daycare. The response was something along the line of if I stayed home to raise our daughter this wouldn't be an issue and he had 2 other kids to worry about and he works overtime to pay their bills there. I tried not to get upset and give in to the taunts, I replied and asked to go through a Justice counsellor and I would like to exchange financial records for this. I got called some very horrible names and hung up on. This is the point we started emailing and I asked in writing to exchange financial disclosure in the form of a statement that included our last three years of income tax and up to date paycheque stubs. The reply to this was I would only get them through court and he would like to see me try.

Needless to say Ive done two financial statements in the last year, up front and served. I finally received one last year with only the income tax. He made a lot more than he said with 2 raises and banked overtime. When asked for an up-to-date paycheque stub as well (as this is part of the financial statement) I received an old one for his very first week of work. When we went in front of the judge my lawyer brought up the financial disclosure was needed but in all of the issues it got adjourned to another. A year and a half after my first request, they gave us an up todate stub the morning of the case conference.

See that was a long post. I was trying to paraphrase without adding all of then entire exchange in, and I obviously did not write the sentence very well. I will try to be more clear in the future.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2015, 10:30 AM
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Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,048
Berner_Faith will become famous soon enough

Your mistake was not updating CS annually. It seems you guys made an agreement that was outside the guidelines, it wouldn't be right fro you to now ask for retro support. Focus on going forward and do it by the book. A judge won't allow him to no pay support. This isn't something that should have to go to trial. Your ex's income is $xxxxxx.xx, support on that amount is $xxxx.

Figure out daycare and section 7 based on both your incomes. It is easy to do and you shouldn't have to push to trail to get this done. Get an order and file with FRO.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2015, 03:49 PM
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Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 994
FightingForFamily will become famous soon enough

Based on later amendments to the federal child support guidelines, parties are required by law to exchange updated financial information and adjust accordingly. It was added to the legislation because it had become such a common problem and wasn't always included in every order or agreement.

I agree with your ex's feelings that it is frustrating as a payor that every bit of hard work, reward, promotion I earn even many years after divorce, my ex gets a free raise on top of everything else she got. You can pretend to argue that it's for the children, not the ex, but that's not at all how the money is used and there's no accountability.

The real problem is that although everyone always insists on INCREASING support, they will never give the payor a break should they ever lose their job, lose some income, or be forced to take a lesser job.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:19 PM
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Nurse_Lisa is on a distinguished road

I agree that it should be in line with the guideline amounts. I also do know that it is in the legislation, but that doesn't mean that individuals comply.

I do understand the frustration and working hard. For the first 6 years we did not go by guideline amounts and decreased it as he was in school, had other kids, etc. In 2011, as stated above, was the first time we did anything according to guidelines and I paid all S.7 expenses, medical, dental, extra circular, educational, and daycare. Making a big deal out of a small increase is not what I did but it was over 24K difference in income in 2013. That's almost a 40%increase.

Anyway I will be focusing on settling in our CC. I just wanted to know if anyone had any experience with self rep and rules and advice for Case conferences.
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:10 PM
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annapurna66 is on a distinguished road

Case conference is a way to get the issues on the table and ask for things that you need (eg. Disclosure on financials, interim order on consent, etc). Know your position and be prepared to negotiate. Nothing will happen without your consent at a CC so don't let yourself get bullied. Read the Family law rules so that you will know the timelines and requirements for the next steps. I agree with bringing your brief to the CC and see if the judge accepts it. I think that the other party could potentially ask for costs since you were not prepared.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2015, 10:17 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 164
Franklin is an unknown quantity at this point

Let me tell you something bout family law.

First don,t worry about costs, OP always asks for costs and so should you. Why? , because that,s what we do, we ask and ask and ask. You asked for financial statements, got nothing, asked again got some, asked again got a little more, then another CC ask again. Do you see the pattern. If you are self repin then just keep going like LAO do, and expect nothing much to come from the courts, UNLESS HE sighns. Then you have an order and can have it filed with FRO. I hate paying my ex but what I pay she needs and if she want,s more I will fight her but in the end I would be stupid to hide obvious info, like FS.

I feel your being reasonable. He says no to tutoring and you pay it. Wow. I think some would fight that for nothing better than to harm their ex, pretending to be thinking of the children. In saying this the courts will drag this out for no good reason until trial, see that is only when a Judge can legally make an order and not need either one of you to consent it with your signature, do you get that?, witch seems ridiculous considering this is a math problem that should not cost you all stress and turmoil.

You have no choice but to keep going or give up, This is Family Law.
You seem to be in the right so if it gets to that point I see you will receive more money and some costs, but how much can he pay, how much is a good question the only question really.
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