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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2015, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by WorkingDAD View Post
thank you Arabian. That is a dream. Here's what I got from mommy when asked for consent for travel so may be we can go somewhere
Giving a position we are currently in. ...I think it is wise to wait until case settles. How you can plan anything , if we are constantly in the court? Please, get back until everything goes back to normal, whatever the normal would be. Now you have appeal to respond to, than appeal to be in court, than motion to change respond to, then said motion to change.... Trial..... that would take time , than Maksik would be in school.
so as I said... that is a dream

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First, it doesn't prevent you from bringing a motion forward to seek an order that you are free to travel with the child.

If the other party hasn't noticed yet... This case law was written in such a way that it is very hard to appeal. The amount of work that the Honourable Mr. Justice Pazaratz invested into para. 33 to 48 is quite solid. The Analysis from para. 49 to 61 is equally powerful.

The appeal process is much longer than if the other party simply complied with this order and presented what was asked of her by the courts. But, she "but never acknowledges that she had any problems to resolve." (para. 26.(c))

The Applicant in this matter demonstrates the behaviour patterns of a personality disorder.

Article by Mr. William Eddy: Orange County Community Resources

Mr. Eddy says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Eddy

Someone with a personality disorder is usually a person experiencing chronic inner distress (for example fear of abandonment), which causes self-sabotaging behavior (such as seeking others who fear abandonment), which causes significant problems (such as rage at any perceived hint of abandonment) -- in their work lives and/or their personal lives.
Justice Pazaratz observes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justice Pazaratz

[59] d. I have never seen a parent in a custody dispute more effectively and consistently demolish their own case.
Mr. Eddys says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Eddy

They may function quite well in one setting, but experience chaos and repeated problems in others.
Justice Pazaratz observes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justice Pazaratz

And she has yet to fully explain why she is still on Ontario Works. She is an intelligent lady (and a resourceful litigator). She has some post-secondary education and says she was saving money to return to school.
Mr. Eddy says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Eddy

A personality disorder does not usually go away except in a corrective on-going relationship -- such as several years in a counseling relationship. Until then, the person may constantly seek a corrective experience through a series of unsatisfying relationships, through their children, or through the court process. In a sense, untreated personality disorders don't fade away -- they just change venue.
Justice Pazaratz says:
Too much to quote. Just read the case law posted on CanLII. It is self evident.
Mr. Eddy says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Eddy

Usually they developed their personality style as a way of coping with childhood abuse, neglect or abandonment, an emotionally lacking household, or simply their biological predisposition. While this personality style may have been an effective adaptation in their "family of origin," in adulthood it is counter-productive. The person remains stuck repeating a narrow range of interpersonal behaviors to attempt to avoid this distress.
Justice Pazaratz observes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justice Pazaratz

SIMILAR LITIGATION

[27] By coincidence the Applicant’s brother has recently been involved in identical litigation – so identical that he was also completely unsuccessful in seeking joint custody of his own children.
a. Her brother testified at the Applicant’s first trial in 2011. I didn’t believe him.

b. Her brother testified at her second trial in 2014. Justice Harper didn’t believe him.

c. The Applicant testified at her brother’s 13 day trial which started late last year. Justice Chappel’s judgment dated April 22, 2015 makes it clear she didn’t believe either one of them.

d. The final order specified that the Applicant is only allowed supervised access to her brother’s children.
[28] There is a pattern here.
I could go on but, it is so obvious that it is just a waste of time because the Applicant in this matter will simply just seek "out superficial counselling from an “expert” who lacks appropriate credentials and was never told the truth. The Applicant portrays herself as “cured”, but never acknowledges that she had any problems to resolve." (para. 26.(c))

Good Luck!
Tayken

Last edited by Tayken; 06-15-2015 at 08:00 AM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2015, 08:08 AM
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Good for you!!! You got lucky to have a series of good judges. I tried that in my case to show how many lies my ex had made and misled the courts and CAS, but the judge didn't allow me to spend any time on these issues. Just wanted to jump into numbers! Weird!
Many factors to consider as to why a judge wouldn't hear the evidence. If the matter was simply to resolve the numbers and you did not request relief or cross the matter with the issues of custody and access then the evidence wasn't relevant before the court. In addition, if a prior decision had been made on custody and access (or agreement between the parties) then it would require a material change in circumstance to change the existing order or agreement.

The concept of "relevance" is very difficult for even lawyers to understand let alone self-represented litigants. Often what a litigant deems as "relevant" to their own personal matter is not "relevant" to the court proceedings or to make a determination. Sometimes, having too much evidence hinders or hurts a case. Cogency is another challenge that lawyers and litigants struggle with every day in court.

Sometimes the "facts" as a litigant see them are clouded by their own personal emotions and the "facts" they are presenting are not cogent nor are they relevant to the matter.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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