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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2014, 11:24 AM
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Default SC gone wrong.................

Has anyone heard a judge make a recommendation against the OCL recommendation with none factual claims by the mother in the report?

The end result was that the judge recommended that I give up Custody of our child because the mother is making claims that I make it difficult to make decisions ( which of course are all fabrications and false).

I did not even get a chance to speak at all, I had a nice full speech prepared for the judge. I felt it was an ambush right from the get go. The judge criticised the OCL report saying that she did not understand how the Assessor would recommend Joint Custody with the claims the mother was making. I stood up and defended myself by stating that those claims are not factual and false. The judge seemed taken back and still stated "yeah but you still make it difficult and still cant make decisions. It is crucial that your child have a decision maker for emergency purposes." I stated that there was never an issue with decision making prior to these current proceedings and decisions are still being made. the claims that the mother is making are all false. ( I gave the judge the true version).

The judge then advised us to use an OnSite mediator. we did and the mother has not changed her ways at all. Refuses to compromise and mediate. The mediator put her in her place several times but she was reluctant to change or do anything. I even compromised my scheduled summer vacation in hopes that she would try something but nope.

After many hours of mediation we are now back in front of the judge. the judge pointed at me and demanded that I change my position and that the mother offer to settle was reasonable. I felt like 10 people were stomping on me. WTF I don't even think the judge read my Brief. She did however read the mothers 100 page brief because she highlighted and tabbed pages in it. I feel I was doomed from the get go. no chance at all. the mother just sat there with a smile knotting her head approving the judges recommendations.

This happened a few days ago and I still cant get over what happened?

now the mother is trying to state as facts that it is best because we cannot communicate? HELLO I HAVE THOUSANDS OF ATTEMPTS TO COMMUNICATE. WHY HAVENT YOU RESPONDED ? WHY HAVENT YOU BEEN TRANSPARENT ABOUT OUR CHILD?

Ugh extremely frustrated right now.
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Old 05-03-2014, 02:47 PM
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I am sorry it went poorly. I think you should put it behind you and take it to trial. I am pretty sure that it would be a differnt judge and nothing from SC would be relevant. I suspect in a trial, the favourable OCL report would weigh heavily as expert evidance

Fight on my friend. I (we) are right behind you!!!
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Old 05-03-2014, 03:58 PM
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That's right ODM you'll get another Judge and another kick at the can. I don't even care what the Judges say at Conferences I'm already planning the next one while I'm there....lol

Judge will blindly lean on people sometimes to get a resolution of course the Trial Management Conference another Judge will do the leaning harder because he/she doesn't want to schedule a Trial on a already over booked Trial list.

Yes Judge probably didn't read your stuff he probably only read your ex's in chambers (that's where they prepare before going out in Court room and pretty much decides who he'll go after)

Think back to your CC there is something you did there to make that Judge think you were difficult. That CC Judge put down on his ENDORSEMENT (the one I sure as heck you have grabbed a copy of) that you were difficult in decision area.

Did you get the SC endorsement? That one is going to be the same as CC one maybe with different wording...but each lazy Judge passes there secret endorsement messages to each other so they don't have too think

Now a Trail Management Judge will have two judges saying your difficult...lol in each of there endorsements.......and you thought the briefs were off the record...nope the Judges pass there little love notes too each other

Read both endorsements and get your ass in gear to refute the path they put you on. You have to rework your strategy even though they are "fast tracking" you out the of the Court House

Start studying how a Trial works if the judges at Conferences won't listen they'll sure have to listen to days of you rambling on at a Trial lmao

SC judge didn't read OCL report ...that was in your favor then guess what if the TMC judge doesn't read it. It's going to be exhibit 1 at a Trial and turned into evidence at a Trial

Your ex may be all happy that the Conferences are all fun for her but she won't be smiling in a witness box getting grilled by you for hours

Is the ex self rep? Then she'll lose the Trial. That's where you meet the LAW.

Ignore the Conferences the Judge(s) are so lazy it's enabling your ex too sleep walk through them she isn't going to negotiate or assist with a resolution doesn't have too. This works in YOUR favour.

You have been strengthening your position...looking for proof on issues. Gathering material where your ex just slumbers and has a one act play.

Something new and Judges 'lap it up" when parties find it difficult to chat with each other or fabricate they can't chat (because it works at conferences) is "OUR FAMILY WIZARD"

The Wizard will blow the doors of your ex's "only position" that's stopping it what appears "joint custody" and the entries there are usable in Court.

This is one tool I can think of off hand...it costs about 100 bucks to join it's out of Minneapolis in the States they'll contact your ex by phone to set up her account and you both go from there. If a Judge see's it's refused it may be bad day for your ex

Make sure by registered mail she knows it's coming. Make sure a copy of your registration is Attachment ONE of your SC brief.....make sure you have a letter protesting her refusal and encouraging her to please sign up as ATTACHMENT 2 (doesn't have to be attachment 1 and 2...lmao)

Mediators won't work...blah blah blah...but that's only a position at conferences....makes sure registered letter(s) with 3 mediators offered so she can pick one is sent.. this is for Trial purposes

Both sides briefs start dissecting for Trial exhibits.. Yes start a binder for your Trial your looking for undisputable facts to make into exhibits so a Judge can consider turning into evidence during your Trial

Try to get things in writing from you ex refusing or being difficult while she's over confident by being hailed the king in conferences

start that parenting plan for 50-50 a honest workable one.....and why not look into moving around the corner from your ex's house or close to kids school (rent a house) that goes off like a nuclear bomb for the ex...lmao

Start a binder for Costs and give yourself an hourly rate
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Old 05-03-2014, 04:18 PM
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Hi OntarioDaddyMan,

Do not blame yourself that SC gone wrong. It is not your fault.

Your matter is re custody, mine is not. However the pattern is similar. It looks like a standard dishonest practice in the Family Courts.

My conferences at Superior Court of Justice in Toronto go the same way. Last SC was couple weeks ago. I am still upset and frustrated.

Since March 2013, the Case Management Judge is using this tactic against me. There are 3 parties in my case. I am applicant. However the Conferences are always starting from one of the opposing parties. The opposing lawyer is providing submissions including some false accusations regarding me. Something like: Applicant did not provide requested Vehicle Purchase Agreement ($1700). In spite of the fact that this document was attached to Continuing Record 2 years ago. After that, the Judge continues with his speech about something what is not related to any issues of SC and the case. The Judge simply does not allow providing my submissions. Why is it done this way? The answer is simple - Judge protects court's recording from my words and submissions. It has nothing in common with justice. It is oppressing my human rights. I had already 3 Conferences like this. None of the real issues were discussed during last 3 conferences. None of the issues was settled.

Be ready for one more judge's trick - You coming for Conference on the scheduled date and Motion Coordinator tells you that Judge will not hear your case due to judge's family circumstance. When it is happened with me, my case was 1st on the list and it was not heard. However the judge heard rest of the cases scheduled for that day. Why is it done? The answer is simple - it is adjournment without any endorsement.

What is more awful - during last 3 conferences, the Judge was starting hearings from one of the opposing lawyers who represents the party which does not attend to all 3 Conferences. However the Family Law Rules clearly state - All parties have to attend to the conferences. The same party did not file the Brief for 3 conferences and it is OK for the Case Management Judge.

Other opposing party does not proceeds with disclosure. Moreover, for the last conference, the same judge ordered to all parties bringing Document Brief. I prepared and served it to opposing parties before SC. The opposing parties came without ordered Document Briefs. The Judge was OK with this.

All 3 endorsements from the these conferences do not show the facts that one of opposing parties do not come to conference and both opposing parties do not prepare ordered documents.

Why is such injustice? Maybe because I and you are self representing or maybe it is corruption. I do not have an answer.

It's a shame that such tricks are used by Judges in the custody cases. Children are suffering. It is not best child's interest. It is the best interest of lawyers and judges.
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Old 05-03-2014, 05:20 PM
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To add , the judge also added that the child be registered to a school. Even though I questioned the judge on this and said that he is already registered and this does not need to be an order. I them said " I do not agree to this being an order" the judge asked if I agreed to the chd attending that school and I agreed. Then she stated " so then you agree and that's that's" and put it in the endorsement . Wtf


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Old 05-03-2014, 07:00 PM
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You have too shake this up...not for the Judge(s) the Judges have decided who they are going to squeeze to settle but to make your ex settle and to that end make her nervous about her position in this which leads too her being more agreeable (backing off) at Conferences.

Both you and your ex say to yourselves unknowingly ..if this got to Trial I'd probably win.

what you have to start saying to yourself is I'm preparing for Trial and I'm looking at stuff (from conferences) to win it

See if you have any family that wants to go with you to TMC (let the ex ask that they be booted out of the Courtroom) optics are everything

Oh and you'll reimburse the ex or pay for her to join Our Family Wizard

EVEN on the Trial day a Judge will do a last ditch mini TMC if there is a chance to get matters settled without a Trial...he'll write down what issues remain and go get another judge to do the mini TMC....if that fails then you go back to first judge and he goes over results of mini TMC....lmao...finally if he can't avoid the Trial let the party begin!

Last edited by MrToronto; 05-03-2014 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:35 PM
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One of the things you have to change is not pointing out all the letters you wrote to get along and were ignored, rejected or refused. Those are for a Trial to prove a history of asking and told to hit the road

Look for anything from your ex that encourages access (hopefully you find none). Look for anything that show's she's moved on any position towards an agreement (hopefully she has the same old position that works at Conferences).

Access goes to the reasonable parent that will promote access

Any old stuff you can find where there's even a hint that 50-50 was being discussed but later she shut down or access started of well and then she changed or hopefully she never wanted me period to have access and never offered is great stuff

That's probably why the OCL got involved your ex hates you having access and is doing everything she can to be UNREASONABLE

So the items you can find before the OCL got involved is gold for leading a Trial Judge along the history of this matter
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:47 PM
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Oh almost forgot you have to get your ex saying NO one to many times at a Conference

Judge ..Ms EX would you accept trying Our Family Wizard

NO

Judge ..would you accept interim 50-50 while using Our Family Wizard

NO

Judge...would you agree to mediate and increase access gradually

NO

Judge...reschedule another Conference so parties can try mediation

NO
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Old 05-04-2014, 12:02 PM
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I think most people don't understand the purpose of a SC:

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...arified-15545/

Read that ^^^ then contemplate if your SC went wrong...

Gene wrote about it (after that posting above) as well:

http://www.complexfamilylaw.com/blog...fairness.shtml

Last edited by Tayken; 05-04-2014 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 05-04-2014, 03:32 PM
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Thanks Tayken for reminding about this appeal case. For sure I read this case and I agree with judge's decision in the appeal re purpose and orders at the conferences.

In Oct 2013 I posted topic TMC - strange Judge's order
http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...s-order-16289/

I do not want to take over this topic. However, unfair tactic was used against topic starter and against me during last 4 conferences. OntarioDaddyMan's reply about school registration just confirmed the pattern regarding Strange Judge's Order and unfairness at the conferences.

Probably I have to clarify my situation. As I mentioned before, there are 3 parties in my case:
- I am Applicant (self representing)
- my spouse is respondent (represented by 2 lawyers ) and
- third party is her previous husband (well represented by lawyer too ).

Yeah, nice triangle Third party appeared in the case as a mortgagee who wants to take over main family asset - small business with commercial property.

1. Where is fairness at SC if my ex does not provide full disclosure and Case Management Judge is aware of this? Actually the Case Management Judge ordered her to comply with disclosure not late than Apr 2013. Ex simply ignores part of requested disclosure.

2. Where is fairness at the conferences if third party did not appear at TMC in Mar 2013, TMC in Jul 2013, TMC in Oct 2013? The same party was not filing the TMC Briefs for all mention TMCs. During the TMC in Oct 2013, the Case Management Judge ordered that next step is Mediation and half-day SC.

3. Mediation was useless without full disclosure. The Case Management Judge is experienced judge and knew this.

4. In Apr 2014 as usually, the third party did not appear at SC (half day conference). Nevertheless the Case Management Judge allowed this party to bring motion re amending his pleadings. Is it fairness?

5. The Case Management Judge ordered that all parties have to bring Document Briefs for SC in Apr 2014. I was only one party who followed this order. The Judge was OK that opposing parties breached his own order and he did not pay attention to this fact. Is it fairness?

6. Where is the fairness at the conferences if Case Management Judge knows that I was expelled from the business and opposing parties are bankrupting me now? The Case Management Judge is receiving all my Fin. Statements. Also all my bank statements are filed in to Continuing Record too. Ordered by this Judge conferences brought 18 months of delays in the case and financial hardship for me.

7. The motion regarding amending pleadings by third party is scheduled for the middle of May. In spite of the Family Law Rules the Case Management Judge ordered that if I want to bring the cross-motion, I have to file materials 3 weeks before the motion. Do you believe that this Judge does know the Rules? Where are the Law and Fairness?

As a reference, in Mar 2013 the Case Management Judge was handling the Contempt motion against my ex re hiding net family property ($1.8M); TMC in Jul 2013; TMC Oct 2013 and half-day SC in Apr 2014. I am just showing that judge is well informed what is going on in the case.

And in the end - my Case Management Judge is Mr. Justice Czutrin!
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