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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 03:32 AM
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Default Relocation issue and grandparents access on fathers agreement

In the case conference the lawyers discussed my giving up the right to spousal property etc along with relocation.
I don't care about "our" shit and we were common law so don't even want to go down that road about who paid what. I gave that up.
BUT relocation?
It's been seven yrs w an interm order that hasn't been valid.
My ex moved out of province then a few yrs later to an even further province. His visitation we agreed to verbally w lawyers was biweekly then when he moved even further HE decided monthly with no discussion or input. Although will do biweekly if its convenient.
Keeping this simple here:
Ex has family in province I am in, And in his visits takes my son for the weekend over night with his parents (sons grandparents).


I have a career and over the seven years struggle in hoping to get N agreement in place as there isn't one, I have continued to go to school and work on my qualifications for a better job eventually elsewhere on e an agreement is in place.
So yes at some point once I get something (trial set for April)
I plan on working on my supports, financials and hope to hook a sweet job in a better warmer province. This is my home province but had moved away for 6 yrs before a visit home and met my ex and stayed.
Either way, what does this all mean?
If I give up my right to relocate what's the chance of me moving?can I apply to court when I'm ready and get the wheels Turning?
My lawyer should have discussed this and was aware that I had intentions of moving and so does my ex over the past few years.
And sure my sons father family is here but they refuse to bother outside of their sons visits. They have very very rarely asked for time and have blamed me for not allowing them access. I have sent numerous emails me posted on family website my openness in trying to accommodate them. I require honest information and disclosure and it in writing.
What another thing my ex is trying to do is introduce his family as back ups.
Back ups for picking up my son from school/dropping off, if he is unable. So this gives him an opening to not bother showing up and his family still having a visit.
Pls if ex was not there for for entire weekend his parents who would be in charge of my son would not rt my son home the first evening or inform me of any issue. They wouldn't even bring my son home Nd I would be clueless.
For one day .... But for 4-5 days? Not a chance I would ever agree.
Plus I have issues with my ex's parents such as the father is distant and authoritarian forced into early retirement for abusive talk to his students (he was a teacher).
My ex's mom was suicidal and had gambling issues, depression etc. stole huge aMounts of money from their retirement.
My ex told me various neglects he suffered in his home like drinking antifreeze r being locked in closet. Ex's mom even went on stress leave from her job and took off out of the country for her months long annual trip not once but at least 2 times. Possible 3!

Exchange student living with family babysitter had sex with ex as 12yr old. Who went on to start experimenting with his first cousin afterwards.
And as an adult this sexual relationship was again picked up (thus part of my ending this relationship)
I just really monitor my son and his happiness and make sure no issues concern me.
They including my ex refuse to provide me parenting information nor consider addressing any parenting concerns.
They have threatened to not return my son and the police have numerous calls but I look like the idiot.
Also my ex and his lawyer are stating the suicidal depression never happened and I am just being an ass. I got various family members this info was disclosed to by ex and his family. My ex is trying to have these details in the parenting agreement/court order.
What's the breakdown on this and what can I do to support myself in this?
Any feedback is appreciative on this.
I need some help since my ex is asking in the court documents to have his family just call and tell me they are taking my son and to have their visits on their own included.
Am I in trouble here? What do I need To do to prove myself?
I don't need to lie and my son likes his family and is happy enough to see them. But they are so hateful and spiteful and very petty.
Even after 7 yrs they recently sent me an email telling me my son would be old enough soon and smart enough to figure out what I am doing to them and doing to him. They have convinced themselves of their own fictional spin.
They at one point told me if they saw their grandson outside their sons visit, it would be helping me, and they won't do that. Why give me a break or an evening off?
I don't have to like them but its my sons family and he enjoys them. And yes I would like an evening off from my 2 jobs and school work.
It makes no sense.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxyroller71 View Post
I don't need to lie and my son likes his family and is happy enough to see them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxyroller71 View Post
I don't have to like them but its my sons family and he enjoys them.
You freely admit that the child enjoys/likes being with his Dad and extended family. That's good. Why would you want to change/alter/prevent something that's "in the best interests of the child"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roxyroller71 View Post
I plan on working on my supports, financials and hope to hook a sweet job in a better warmer province. This is my home province but had moved away for 6 yrs before a visit home and met my ex and stayed.
Either way, what does this all mean?
If I give up my right to relocate what's the chance of me moving?can I apply to court when I'm ready and get the wheels Turning?
The court can't stop you from relocating. You're free to move anytime you want, just don't take the boy with you.
The court can, and likely will, prevent you from relocating the child.

What it all means is that you probably have two options:

1) Forget the new job/relocation and stay put so Dad can exercise his parental rights and have access to his son.

2) Move to a better, warmer Province but the boy gets to stay put and live with Dad. Cost (plane tickets, hotels etc...) of any access you exercise will most likely be at your expense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by roxyroller71 View Post
And sure my sons father family is here but they refuse to bother outside of their sons visits. They have very very rarely asked for time and have blamed me for not allowing them access.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxyroller71 View Post
What another thing my ex is trying to do is introduce his family as back ups. Back ups for picking up my son from school/dropping off, if he is unable.
These two statements seem to contradict each other.

Last edited by firhill; 11-26-2012 at 05:03 AM. Reason: schpelling
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:43 AM
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Just to clarify:

1) You appear to have sole (or at least primary physical) custody
2) You live in province A
3) Ex lives in province B
4) Ex exercises access monthly, or biweekly, despite being in another province, and usually stays at his parent's house during this time.
5) You wish to move to province C

My guess is that you will probably be allowed to relocate, but you will have to provide generous makeup time in the summer/christmas, and support will be reduced to compensate father for his increased access costs due to your decision.

If you have a problem with Ex's family, you need to call CAS or accept that it is beyond your control. CAS will probably not do anything, since even through your filter they don't sound that bad.

It is possible (though hard to tell from your writing) that grandparents are the ones exercising the father's access. Frankly, I think that you should support that (best interest of the children and all) but you could make an argument if father is not in province during said access. Whether you should fight this, well...

You tend to ramble a bit in your posts. Try to use point form, it would make it easier to follow. You tend to group many issues together at once, many of which are unrelated.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:15 PM
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Default complicated...

sorry im just trying to exlain. lots of details becuase it so high conflict and complicated. I apologize for the long winded blurb...things can be broken down into separate issues and would become completely differnet threads on each issue.
travel and child support is separate. thats for another one.

this isnt a regular easy to conclude...
The plan is for eventual move....once its convenient and is slowly in the works for ONEDAY...
so would giving up my right now effect the ONE DAY? thats the big question.
as for travel and costs and child support: leave that for another post.
grand parent issue:
i agree to the grandparent access but not as part of his fathers access and info being kept from me. i know how they work. they dont feel its my business. they refuse to prove basic parenting information and refuse to answer any questions or concerns i might have.

my ex didnt want to commit to the monthly visit...actually it was me forcing him to commit to visit his son. i chase him to commit to visits. he wanted to just show up and take him when he wanted. maybe every 2 months maybe every 3 weeks or 4 or 5 or 6...he wasnt sure and couldnt decide. and wanted to give me 48 hrs notice.
also a guy who refuses to parent or provide input. (verbal is no good, writing is only way to protect myself). all info provided to him. websites are available for him as well to access information from school etc. i got to keep it in writting and need an agreement to protect myself in this as this is someone who then takes a temper tantrum and forces himself into my home. thrown me to the ground from my stopped car becuse he demanded that it be his visit.
these are not normal people despite what his salary/lifestyle/success states.
this is a guy also who refuses to take his son to the scheduled activity, doctors appointment, school function, home work,...he isnt interested. the routine is completley put aside. and i accept that since its not in my control. i just pick u the peices.
my ex's family want to be able to keep their grandson for days at a time when his dad does a no show.
they also just want to call and order a visit regardless of what is hapening that week.
im open for them to schedule something but that means sending me an email (in writng since i have learned my lesson) and having me accomodate them....which they are not interested in doing. if i can accomdate, i have no issue with an evening with them.
they are not interested in asking me but informing me....any commitments on our part be damned...they want to call and tell me. they want to have it in the agreement that thye just need to call and tell me, not consult me.
its to revolve around their trips, curling, bowling etc. which is fine but they dont want to be bothered with anything like my sons like soccer game falling on their time, or our concert tickets that are purchased.

As for the crazy stuff, my son hasnt been "hurt" and i havent seen anything or been concerned BUT i watch and have had concerns. they know i would call the police and CFS asap. they are watching themselves and i keep them on their toes in this respect and thats also becuase its visits. its not extensive 4-5 days over nights alone. i dont want to get there.

outside of them bad mouthing me to my son...they refuse to inform me of any parenting issue with my son while in their care. they say its not my business.
My ex has a tendency to be very late or not even show up and he would like to hand over his monthly visit to his family. thats 4-5 days with a missing kid becuase they wont return him that evening. they are also people who have threatened to not return my son and to take him away from me etc. (empty threats)
my ex and his wife sleep with my son in the grandparents home (another issue for an 8 yr old) so when he returns home wants to sleep with me as well. (i would love to kick him out and regularly do so) ...so having him stay out for 4-5 days sleeping by himself in the basement? cant see it going well...and sleeping with his grandparents?
im thinking these become very unhealthy boundaries. we wont go into the sexual misconduct my ex expeinced or the relationship my ex had with first cousin.... it starts getting too jerry springer. my ex has issues with boundaries and has claimed to me his own neglect from his parents like locked in the closet or ignored as a child who went on to drink antifreeze. that was the family joke. (then we are going into bad stuff i would LOVE to not bring up).
my eyes are open and im not going to be lied to or manipulated or have my trust abused by these people. do i have concerns? thats why im addressing them by stating my concernes with this grandparent access. its one story while his dad is there and another when he isnt. plus the time of it? my ex stated to me that he wouldnt have trusted his mom with our child.
again these are not normal people despite the facade. its scares me to have these people unlimited and free riegn over child that isnt theirs, over his mom? i think having his parents in my court documents as a subsitute for my ex....its an issue...one i wont agree to willy nilly handing over my son with no info provided. wait until my son comes home and tells me what? what good does that do? damage done.
im asking for provisions now... back up for a couple of hours while ex is landing is fine but not for days on end as his dads no show visit. my son wouldnt feel comfortable being stuck with them for 4-5 days alone without his dad.
its not an easy issue and one i would like to avoid and have his dad admit and deal with this for his son and his sons protection. my allegations arent unfound, he didnt only inform me so its not only my word.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:58 PM
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Wall of text.....

Too many emotions involved here.

While I admittedly didn't read the entire post because it was too long, poorly put together and just otherwise rambling, I am not sure what the issue is or how any of the above would impact the ability to relocate with the child.

The test for relocation is from Gordon v Goertz (search Canlii). It provides that the move must be in the childs best interests. If you can prove the move is in the childs best interests, you should be allowed.

The rest of the stuff re: kid sleeping in the same bed etc (my daughter climbs into my bed at night sometimes too with my wife and I...it happens) and the drivel re: his alleged relationship with cousin has absolutely no relevence.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
the drivel re: his alleged relationship with cousin has absolutely no relevence.
lol...I think its relevant...but not to the issue of relocating.

To the OP: If you love your child...the best gift you can give him is the fair opportunity to have a relationship with his dad and his paternal extended family.

I understand that you have issues with your ex...but they're your issues. It sounds like you have a LOT of "rules" and when you don't have one in place, you make one up to fit the occasion. Give the guy a chance to be a parent to his kid on his terms..not yours.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:13 PM
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lol...I think its relevant...but not to the issue of relocating.
Well, I will qualify....I can't see how it has any relevence to relocation and the best interests of the child......

Quote:
I understand that you have issues with your ex...but they're your issues. It sounds like you have a LOT of "rules" and when you don't have one in place, you make one up to fit the occasion. Give the guy a chance to be a parent to his kid on his terms..not yours.
Agreed.

While I will try to carry over punishments from the ex's house and otherwise try to be consistent with bedtimes etc (as children are best when there is structure) what goes on in my house is none of my ex's business. I don't ask what happens in her house, I don't advise her of what is going on in mine unless is it material to the child (ie. health etc).

I remember when my ex used to ask what my daughter ate etc. I just replied with "she ate well".
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Well, I will qualify....I can't see how it has any relevence to relocation and the best interests of the child......
Lol...yea I knew what you meant...I was being facetious.

Quote:
I remember when my ex used to ask what my daughter ate etc. I just replied with "she ate well".
Yes, we went through a similar stage early on with my ex trying to tell me who I was allowed have over my own house when my daughter was in my care. I ignored it and in time, it stopped.

Not to be sexist....especially since in my case, it was the reverse situation...but in general, I think women have a harder time just letting the kid go with their dad on his time and trusting that they can handle things.

Even if previous to divorce, the parent hasn't spent enough time around the kid...its a learned thing that you get better at when you have one-on-one exposure.

To the OP: It sounds like this particular father loves his kid and he and his family want to spend time with him...that's a great thing. So many parents just take off and leave their kid...when you have one that WANTS to develop a relationship...encourage it even if its inconvenient to you! If you try a little harder...so will he. Give your kid the chance to have a father and an extended family because not doing so will come back to bite you in ways you can't imagine right now.

Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 11-26-2012 at 04:03 PM. Reason: typos typos typos!
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:58 PM
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Lol...yea I knew what you meant...I was being facetious.
Yeah, I got that....I should've used these
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