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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 11-02-2017, 08:38 PM
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Default Recording Ex On Video on Pickups Illegal?

So during pick ups and drop offs, sometimes my ex brings up issues in front of our daughter in angry manner. Of course she doesn't do this by email because she knows I can show the court, so she does this on pick ups and drop offs. Today she started on me and for my own protection I started recording with my phone. As a man I can easily be accused, plus I hope that by filming that she will behave. Ive told her not to discuss court dates etc in front of daughter and just by email but this is what she does. And it almost always turns into her raising her voice or verbal abuse.

She said that I did not have her permission to film her and that she was going to the police and she later emailed me saying she was at Police station. So far I haven't heard anything.

Now this is technically on her property because its outside her front door but also out front in the open. And I clearly am filming and she is aware. I want to protect myself and document verbal abuse. When she asked why I was filming I said for my own protection.

Is there anything illegal about this or that I could get in trouble with doing this?
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:43 PM
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Nothing illegal about this at all, especially if you are openly recording. One would hope her behaviour would improve knowing it is being recorded.

Just know better than to post it anywhere. No reponse is required to her ranting, either in person or by email. No reponse is actually better.
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:52 PM
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POlice isn't going to do anything unless you're recording inside her home or something.

Best you get a hidden camera or something so the kids aren't being exposed.
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by blinkandimgone View Post
Nothing illegal about this at all, especially if you are openly recording. One would hope her behaviour would improve knowing it is being recorded.

Just know better than to post it anywhere. No reponse is required to her ranting, either in person or by email. No reponse is actually better.
Yes definitely wasn't for posting.. Just my own protection. She gets angry in front of our daughter, often even ask I'm walking away to my car. Also she's lied in court before making up accusations and I know how easy it is to say anything.. Im a muscular guy and she's relatively small. etc. Has nothing to do with posting
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:50 PM
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Good for you for recording in the open. Itís shows your honesty and character. My ex and his family members hid tape recorders (which the kids saw them hide) and recorded me. The consequences of that the kids refuse to have anything to do with his extended family. Wonít even look at them much less answer them. They and their father were sneaky and underhanded. It permanently damaged the relationship between the kids and his family plus added another reason they donít trust or respect my ex. They said if he had recorded me in the open it wouldnít have bothered them because it wasnít sneaky. It didnít help him in court because I stayed calm and polite.
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:00 PM
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Good for you for recording in the open. Itís shows your honesty and character. My ex and his family members hid tape recorders (which the kids saw them hide) and recorded me. The consequences of that the kids refuse to have anything to do with his extended family. Wonít even look at them much less answer them. They and their father were sneaky and underhanded. It permanently damaged the relationship between the kids and his family plus added another reason they donít trust or respect my ex. They said if he had recorded me in the open it wouldnít have bothered them because it wasnít sneaky. It didnít help him in court because I stayed calm and polite.
Great point!!!! Yeah I wasn't trying to catch her.. rather trying to prevent behaviour..
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Doctor Martins View Post
So during pick ups and drop offs, sometimes my ex brings up issues in front of our daughter in angry manner.
This will curb once your daughter is in school full-time as pickups and drop offs can be done at school for most of the year. As well you can do door-to-door drop-offs at residences.

If you both live in Condo's / Apartments there are probably cameras or staff in the lobby who are witnessing the exchanges. If you do the drop off at McDonalds (and other similar places) there are cameras recording everything.

We live in a recorded society. If the issue is that YOU are recording then, move the exchanges to a place that records EVERYTHING and EVERYONE.

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As a man I can easily be accused, plus I hope that by filming that she will behave.
It isn't a man/woman accusation thing really and although you are focused on the gender issue it really is not. It is a "trustworthy" issue of the parents in general.

More often than not, it is someone trying to leverage these encounters to claim a parent agreed to something they did not to. Like a late arrival time for the return of the children. "I told the_other_parent that I would return our child at 7:30pm not 6:00pm and the_other_parent said it was ok."

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Ive told her not to discuss court dates etc in front of daughter and just by email but this is what she does. And it almost always turns into her raising her voice or verbal abuse.
Verbal abuse is a nonsense allegation at this point. I would drop the victim playing on that one. You don't need to amp-up to get your point across on this forum and especially in court. It will look bad on you.

Do what Michelle Obama would do... When they go low... You go high.

Don't sink low and say it is "verbal abuse". Its inappropriate conduct yes... But, it isn't abuse. See my posting http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ase-law-16809/ about the difficulty with the term "abuse".

A level of disagreement and heated arguments are expected by the courts. They tolerate it somewhat. So, the best thing you can do is not engage. Say nothing.

The purpose of an access exchange is for the child to transfer from one parent to the other. Go high and don't say anything. Discuss nothing. If you do have to say something simply ask the person to send it via email.

Furthermore, access exchanges should be like pulling off a bandaid for parents. Quick and fast.

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She said that I did not have her permission to film her and that she was going to the police and she later emailed me saying she was at Police station. So far I haven't heard anything.
You won't because it is not illegal in Canada.

It is important to know that it is illegal in Canada to willfully intercept a private communication (section 183 of the Criminal Code of Canada).

"Intercept" means: listen to; record; acquire or acquire the substance, meaning or purport of the communication.

You are not permitted to surreptitiously listen to someone else's conversation, let alone record it. In fact, it is illegal in Canada to possess surreptitious recording devices.

The reason you can record your own conversations is the "one party consent" exception, meaning, where one of the parties to a conversation consents being recorded, then they can record the conversation. In multi-person conversations, it only takes one party participating in the conversation to consent to being recorded to fit within the exception.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Martins View Post
Now this is technically on her property because its outside her front door but also out front in the open. And I clearly am filming and she is aware. I want to protect myself and document verbal abuse. When she asked why I was filming I said for my own protection.
Its really a hit or miss if you can use the material in a family law matter. This article does a better job than most on this forum could on the issue:

https://blog.separation.ca/tape-recordings-evidence/

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The case is not to be read as a blanket pass to secretly tape record conversations to be used as evidence. This was a highly extreme situation of alienating and abusive manipulation; AF was essentially teaching her children that they were entitled to hate and disrespect their father. Her conduct was psychologically damaging to the children as the spite for their father manifested in their cruel treatment of JWís dog and threats of self-harming behaviour.
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Is there anything illegal about this or that I could get in trouble with doing this?
As evidence in family law... It is not a good idea.

Generally speaking "case law has held that secret recordings made by a litigant should be discouraged in family law matters." (Above linked article.)

Do it for your protection from false allegations of abuse and other conduct that could find you being criminally charged. For use in a family law matter... I would err on the side of that open and/or secret recordings should be discourtaged in family law matters.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 11-03-2017, 01:14 PM
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Thanks for input
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:57 PM
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I was with the distinct impression (from reading many cases on CanLii) that judges generally do not approve of children being videotaped by parents, and videos presented as evidence, in child custody cases.

So if you are going to videotape, be sure your child is not in the video.
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Old 11-04-2017, 02:15 AM
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I was with the distinct impression (from reading many cases on CanLii) that judges generally do not approve of children being videotaped by parents, and videos presented as evidence, in child custody cases.

So if you are going to videotape, be sure your child is not in the video.
Yeah, know this was on her alone. And using my phone at kind of chest level. I did it again today when I served her and she didnt say anything so obviously the cops told her there was nothing she could do. And it had its intended effect which that no verbal attacks. Im not doing it for court, just to tone down the situation. Now if he started swinging an axe at me then yeah I would use it but I don't see that likely. lol it is good protection as in her latest papers she now says I verbally abuse her and also.. get this.. "am bullying her by serving her with legal papers".. oh and she is the Applicant.. sorry i would have preferred a settlement and not going to court but its actually an adversarial system you introduced into the situation ..
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