Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 04:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,769
dad2bandm is on a distinguished road
Default Purpose of Form 20, Request for information?

I've seen this form referenced a few times, and was wondering about it.

This form would only "apply" for someone still in the midst of obtaining a court order, during a court process, etc?

If one has a "final order", and has had it awhile, is this form needed at all?
ex. If ex won't provide info that is clearly outlined in the court order.

Wouldn't one just file a motion, if necessary (contempt/change, etc) to ask for the info? Or does the Form 20 come into play then?

Does filing a Form 20 without a motion, help at all, in a "court's view" of proving this info has been requested a million times?

I would think, sufficient email/registered letter documentation would be sufficient?


Sorry, it's a form I'm not famliar with (lol...like most of them).
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2013, 02:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,769
dad2bandm is on a distinguished road
Default

Thought I'd re-raise my older post (question), as this is still a question I was wondering about.

Tayken is back now...always a good source of info about "forms" and how they are used :-)

In my scenario... final court order demands that we exchange yearly tax returns/NOAs. Each year, I provide my info. Each year, ex will not. My "in writing" requests either get hostile responses, or are ignored.

Just wondered if using a Form 20, adds any value?

My intent was to either:
- add this request to a motion, to get the info. (motion would include requests to add my name to birth registration, and to get Mom's signature for child's RESP grants)

- or; if I hit yet another access interference issue, I was going to file contempt (the contempt motion, would deal with the repeated access interference/denials, plus the "not forthcoming" tax/noa info. I'm actually surprised another access interference episode hasn't happened yet, again, lately.

Just wondered, if the Form 20 was another option.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2013, 02:42 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,486
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad2bandm View Post
Just wondered if using a Form 20, adds any value?
If you have a final agreement or final court order a Form 20 Request for Information really doesn't hold any weight. The agreement / order is what is valid. If the other party doesn't want to disclose information that has been agreed upon (or ordered) for the disclosure of financial information you should take a look at Form 15 (Change in Support Payments).

You would have to bring a motion to get the deed done probably if the other party is not willing to comply with the terms of an agreement or court order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad2bandm View Post
My intent was to either:

- add this request to a motion, to get the info. (motion would include requests to add my name to birth registration, and to get Mom's signature for child's RESP grants)
If you have a final order or a final settlement agreement you are kind of screwed with mixing this up. YOu just need the child's SIN number to do the RESP investment I believe. Check with a financial investor though who knows what the requirements are. If you have an agreement identifying you as a parent or a court order often that is better than a birth certificate to get anything done.

Also, this isn't a material change in circumstance really. So, you bring forward a general application to get this done and well, you may not get heard because it may not be material enough. Furthermore, read over the requirements for a Form 15 motion... It is specifically about adjusting child support but, a justice might hear the other issues to be resolved (birth certificate).

If you have an agreement or a court order identifying you as a parent you may be able just to leverage that to get the birth certificate updated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad2bandm View Post
- or; if I hit yet another access interference issue, I was going to file contempt (the contempt motion, would deal with the repeated access interference/denials, plus the "not forthcoming" tax/noa info. I'm actually surprised another access interference episode hasn't happened yet, again, lately.

Just wondered, if the Form 20 was another option.
Form 20 wouldn't be another option.

I caution you on contempt motions. Talk to a lawyer before proceeding... And a good lawyer... Not some factory lawyer form a large law firm or one that is a negative advocate lawyer who will represent any nutty person with any allegations no matter how silly it is...

Good Luck!
Tayken
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2013, 02:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,769
dad2bandm is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
If you have a final agreement or final court order a Form 20 Request for Information really doesn't hold any weight. The agreement / order is what is valid.
Thanks Tayken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
If you have a final order or a final settlement agreement you are kind of screwed with mixing this up. YOu just need the child's SIN number to do the RESP investment I believe...
I already have a RESP opened (I have prior threads on the troubles I had in doing so, and issues obtaining documentation from the other parent (SIN # for example). Our daughter can't get the additional RESP grants/Canada Learning Bond she qualifies for, unless Mom provides her signature (they need the "primary caregiver's signature". Mom is the "primary" parent in our joint custody arrangement. Multiple requests to Mom, for her to sign - she won't (first they were hostile responses from her, then no responses). Mom also won't open her own RESP for our child, so that child can obtain extra grants (in case it's some stupid "I don't want our daughter's money associated with your RESP issue".)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
If you have an agreement or a court order identifying you as a parent you may be able just to leverage that to get the birth certificate updated.
Tried. They require Mom's agreement and signature, to add father onto the birth registration, if father was not originally listed. Forms were sent to Mom, with explanation/request for her to agree having me added. (via registered mail). Mom has ignored/not responded on requests.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2013, 10:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 307
Qrious is on a distinguished road
Default

Tayken - I hope you know how invaluable you are to this forum and how appreciated you are. Your depth of knowledge and insight is impressive. (Sorry, dad2, for interrupting your thread - I just had to say it.)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2013, 07:11 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,486
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad2bandm View Post
I already have a RESP opened (I have prior threads on the troubles I had in doing so, and issues obtaining documentation from the other parent (SIN # for example). Our daughter can't get the additional RESP grants/Canada Learning Bond she qualifies for, unless Mom provides her signature (they need the "primary caregiver's signature". Mom is the "primary" parent in our joint custody arrangement. Multiple requests to Mom, for her to sign - she won't (first they were hostile responses from her, then no responses). Mom also won't open her own RESP for our child, so that child can obtain extra grants (in case it's some stupid "I don't want our daughter's money associated with your RESP issue".)
More out dated laws, regulations and rules that need updating in my personal opinion and is more of a legislative issue than one with the parent per-say. The government needs to recognize that there are two parents (or more) and that custody is joint unless a court order specifies otherwise.

The term "primary parent" is useless, not understood and not common to most people. It really shouldn't be used by the courts. The Voice of The Child investigations already identified this at the federal level. It is time to change and especially when 50% of marriages end in divorce.

I am sorry that the government of Canada is behind the times in our legislation. Other than an apology for the backwards thinking of our legislators I really have no creative solutions on how to resolve that issue.

The grants may be lost but, you are still investing to insure your child is educated. Which is still a good thing to do... Even if the government doesn't seem to want to recognize you as a parent which is unfortunate.

The term "primary parent" should be abolished. New definitions of what a "parent" is need to be put into legislation. Primary parent is a crappy term and useless, disrespectful to parents and confusing for most regular people in our society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad2bandm View Post
Tried. They require Mom's agreement and signature, to add father onto the birth registration, if father was not originally listed. Forms were sent to Mom, with explanation/request for her to agree having me added. (via registered mail). Mom has ignored/not responded on requests.
You may be able to social engineer a solution at Service Ontario to resolve this issue. A combination of presentment of a noterized copy of the agreement and a DNA test proving parentage may do it. You might be able to file a complaint as a Human Rights violation against the agency. This is a long shot idea though and I would check with a lawyer prior to doing this.

In the absence of consent it really isn't going to "improve" parental communications to go on motion to get the birth certificate resolved. In your Human Rights complaint you may be able to argue that to do so would put the child at risk of harm due to the fact that Family Court is an adversarial system of law and that it will create unnecessary parental conflict. That it is the government's responsibility to recognize parentage, especially when DNA tests and agreements are in place. It should not require *one* parent to consent to this and you should have been legally recognized at birth. That the failure to inquire or mandate that your name be provided is a violation of your human rights as a parent.

Long long shot on this idea. Check with a lawyer. Just pontificating a possible resolution that may be valid. Still puts you in front of a tribunal and months and years to resolve what should be a VERY SIMPLE thing to do as a parent...

Good Luck!
Tayken
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2013, 07:23 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,486
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
Tayken - I hope you know how invaluable you are to this forum and how appreciated you are. Your depth of knowledge and insight is impressive. (Sorry, dad2, for interrupting your thread - I just had to say it.)
Hi Qrious:

Thank-you but, I do remind everyone that I am of low to average intelligence, not a lawyer, not a clinician and the advice I give on this site does not constitute legal advice or medical advice. Everyone should seek the assitance of a barrister and solicitor for legal advice and the advice of a registered medical clinician for any medical issues they have.

My insight is nothing more than personal opinions from a monkey bashing rocks into a keyboard. There are much better, more schooled and more intelligent contributors to this forum. (OrleansLawyer, Mess, PH, WorkingDad, et all...)

I do not do this for fame, do not financially benefit from anything I contribute to this site.

It is nice to know that some people appreciate the contributions I make to this site. My main objective is to provide people with something useful that they can apply to their situation to truly improve the best interests of their children.

At times, it is difficult because when a parent comes that is possibly over-anxious (or demonstrating common patterns of behaviour of anxiety) that I have to take a position that the parent doesn't want to hear. That they will reject, and attack me for. This is understandable and I do realize that I have many people who contribute to this site who do not appreciate my style, and will even hurl insults (that have to subsequently removed) regularly.

A wise contributor once advised me that they felt that this pattern of behaviour occurred because these contributors often read my responses to other posters and see themselves, their own personal conduct, in the "truisms" I expose and then subsequently feel "bad" because they are themselves conducting themselves in the manner. That they may possibly feel exposed or that their true personal feelings are exposed, and that they are being attacked or that their "litigation strategy" or "mistakes" are being exposed...

This wise contributor even hypothesized that they are facing the same counter arguments I provide in the threads to these possible "anxieties" and common "truisms" in family law and possibly project their ex-partner or their ex-partner's legal counsel at me. That they respond so negatively to my opinions because, they are similar opinions that they face in their own matrimonial situation.

Just a theory of how the theory of psychological projection may be impacting these posters who constantly hunt and peck at my responses with odd responses.

Good Luck!
Tayken
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2013, 09:07 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,769
dad2bandm is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
...
The grants may be lost but, you are still investing to insure your child is educated. Which is still a good thing to do... Even if the government doesn't seem to want to recognize you as a parent which is unfortunate.
...
In respect to this, my hope was if I bring this forward in a motion, I was simply going to ask in the motion for the court to order Mom to provide signature, for child's best interests. (or some other "bypass" mechanism they can order...it's unlikely they would switch the "primary parent" roles, but that would also do it).

And then let Mom explain to a judge why she won't provide her signature for child's grants, or open her own RESP account for child, for the grants as an alternative.

Our daughter can get the Canada Learning Bond, and some additional grant monies. Invested, over the course of the next few years, that adds up to a lot of growth, for her education savings. The banking officer was quite confused, when I had to explain to him, that I'd need to work on getting Mom to cooperate, for daughter to get extra grants. His words. "She understands this is free money for her daughter, right?"
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Filling out Form 20 Request for Information Exquizique Divorce & Family Law 7 06-03-2014 09:11 AM
Filling out and serving Form 20 Request for Information... court Divorce & Family Law 5 09-04-2012 06:51 PM
Emails and Form 22: Request to Admit FamilyBlah Divorce & Family Law 8 11-08-2011 05:42 PM
Motion to Vary - Applicant's affidavit dickstacie Divorce & Family Law 4 02-17-2010 03:26 PM
What form do I need to request a transcript of the proceeding? independentgal Divorce & Family Law 2 02-09-2009 09:20 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:01 PM.