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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2016, 01:50 PM
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I should also mention that mom did not follow through with schools recommendation for counselling previously and the childs marks continued to drop

I think there is more to the childs struggles then let's just put her in tutoring, there is an underlying issue, I will agree with the tutoring for the extra support but there is many cases of children being placed in tutoring that continue to struggle in school and show no improvement, sometimes they just need the support of a parent or father or someone close with them who can work with them on a regular basis

I have seen a case of access being increased to dad citing the child has a clear need to have more time with the father, it may just be that the child is closer bonded to me than is with mom

There is also serious disparaging going on but I cannot evidence that
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2016, 02:17 PM
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I should also mention that mom did not follow through with schools recommendation for counselling previously and the childs marks continued to drop.
I provided my recommendation regarding how to address the counselling.

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Originally Posted by trinton View Post
I think there is more to the childs struggles then let's just put her in tutoring, there is an underlying issue, I will agree with the tutoring for the extra support but there is many cases of children being placed in tutoring that continue to struggle in school and show no improvement, sometimes they just need the support of a parent or father or someone close with them who can work with them on a regular basis
Nothing prevents you from doing this while the child is residing with you. So do it. Tutoring + doing this will only result in positive outcomes for the child in question. Just because they are going to a tutor doesn't mean you have to cease helping them.

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I have seen a case of access being increased to dad citing the child has a clear need to have more time with the father, it may just be that the child is closer bonded to me than is with mom
You should disregard case law as being the truth in your matter. Just because it happened in one case doesn't mean it applies to your case. Use case law to guide you on WHAT NOT TO DO and not what a court might order. Case law is a great way to learn not what to do for free.

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There is also serious disparaging going on but I cannot evidence that
Again, if the matter is serious enough then the child will say something to a teacher and that teacher is obligated to call CAS. Parents are notorious for using their children to express anger. It is unfortunate but, in many cases it gets better. Rarely does it go to full blown "parental alienation".

The best way to resolve this kind of thing is shared 50-50 residency of a child.

Good Luck!
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2016, 03:08 PM
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It sounds like there are a number of different issues being mixed together here:

1. Does Kid need tutoring because s/he is struggling in some subjects? If yes: hire a tutor and pay for it. If no (Kid is doing fine and has no academic problems): don't hire a tutor.

2. Should Mom have talked to Dad before hiring the tutor? Yes, but refusing to pay on those grounds is pretty trivial and not in the best interests of Kid, if the child is struggling in school.

3. Should Dad help Kid with schoolwork? Yes, during Dad's parenting time, whether or not Kid is seeing tutor. No, during Mom's parenting time, unless Mom says it's okay.

4. Should Dad help Kid with schoolwork instead of hiring a tutor? No. These are separate issues.

5. Should Mom let Dad have the kid after school during Mom's parenting time instead of using child care? Only if Mom wants to. Mom has the right to organize her time with Kid as she sees fit.

6. Should Dad have more parenting time with Kid? If Dad thinks Kid would benefit from 50/50 parenting, he should seek a change in his order.

7. Is there a material change in circumstance? Probably not. From what Dad has written, nothing has happened which could not have reasonably been foreseen at the time the order was written, or which would have led to a different order being written if it had been known at the time. Deciding you want to spend more time with Kid is not a material change, neither is Kid doing badly in school (unless the kid's academic performance deteriorated sharply and unexpectedly after the order was written). These are both normal changes which might have been expected.

9. Does this mean Dad is stuck with Mom having full custody? No. Dad can pursue joint custody and shared parenting. However, the "material change" angle probably won't get him too far.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2016, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by stripes View Post
It sounds like there are a number of different issues being mixed together here:

1. Does Kid need tutoring because s/he is struggling in some subjects? If yes: hire a tutor and pay for it. If no (Kid is doing fine and has no academic problems): don't hire a tutor.

2. Should Mom have talked to Dad before hiring the tutor? Yes, but refusing to pay on those grounds is pretty trivial and not in the best interests of Kid, if the child is struggling in school.

3. Should Dad help Kid with schoolwork? Yes, during Dad's parenting time, whether or not Kid is seeing tutor. No, during Mom's parenting time, unless Mom says it's okay.

4. Should Dad help Kid with schoolwork instead of hiring a tutor? No. These are separate issues.

5. Should Mom let Dad have the kid after school during Mom's parenting time instead of using child care? Only if Mom wants to. Mom has the right to organize her time with Kid as she sees fit.

6. Should Dad have more parenting time with Kid? If Dad thinks Kid would benefit from 50/50 parenting, he should seek a change in his order.

7. Is there a material change in circumstance? Probably not. From what Dad has written, nothing has happened which could not have reasonably been foreseen at the time the order was written, or which would have led to a different order being written if it had been known at the time. Deciding you want to spend more time with Kid is not a material change, neither is Kid doing badly in school (unless the kid's academic performance deteriorated sharply and unexpectedly after the order was written). These are both normal changes which might have been expected.

9. Does this mean Dad is stuck with Mom having full custody? No. Dad can pursue joint custody and shared parenting. However, the "material change" angle probably won't get him too far.
Material change: child is struggling in school, to the extend that social workers were involved and counselling was recommended, the marks are below the expected level and child is involved in programs for children with special needs

although it was foresean that she would be going to school (she was in kindergarten when order was made) it was assume that the child would be doing well in school. The child is not thriving and this was not foresean.

material change: child has developed speech difficulties and a referral was made through the school, child is continuing this difficulty and this was also not foresean
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Old 10-21-2016, 03:29 PM
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without shared residency you are a bank account. Pay whatever will make you look good, get shared residency then worry about the rest.
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Old 10-21-2016, 07:59 PM
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Material change: child is struggling in school, to the extend that social workers were involved and counselling was recommended, the marks are below the expected level and child is involved in programs for children with special needs

although it was foresean that she would be going to school (she was in kindergarten when order was made) it was assume that the child would be doing well in school. The child is not thriving and this was not foresean.

material change: child has developed speech difficulties and a referral was made through the school, child is continuing this difficulty and this was also not foresean
Bear in mind that not every unexpected event is a material change in the sense you're thinking of. All kinds of life events can be unexpected but they don't all have a bearing on what is best for the child.

I believe the test is: would the custody arrangements in the order have been different if the change had been known at the time the order was made? In other words, if it had been known at the time you divorced that Kid would have trouble in school in the future, would the judge have decided against sole custody to Mom? Maybe yes, maybe no. I think you're better off not trying to argue that there's been a material change and sticking with the idea that 50/50 residence is best for the child, and that you and Mom will be able to make it work.
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Old 10-21-2016, 08:14 PM
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When my son was in grade 7 I was told by the school that my son should be placed in a "special" school. My son was noted to have extreme reactions when the fire drill went off. My son's academic record was also not great in some subjects. Son was tested by school psychologist and was labelled as "learning disabled."

I did not accept the results of the school testing. I therefore had my son tested by a private, highly regarded, clinician. I recall the cost for the testing alone was around $1,500.00 (this was quite a few years ago).

The result of the intense testing was simply that my son was not motivated. He did not have a learning disability.

Regarding my son's reaction to the fire alarm - turns out my mother would tell my son often of her extreme fear of fire as when she grew up (in the 1930's) people often died of fires. To this day my son hates fire alarms, sirens etc.

Regarding the school. This is what I found out: schools are rated. If child is not doing well academically it is much better for a school to have the child designated as 'learning disabled' so that the school's academic rating isn't affected by students who are not doing well.

I think parents have to be aware of not just the other parent's motivations in requesting testing but of the school system itself. I'd find out WHY tudors are required. And, as other posters have indicated, make sure discussions take place with child's physician. Has the child had regular eye examinations I wonder?

Last edited by arabian; 10-21-2016 at 08:18 PM.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2016, 10:51 PM
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Has the child had regular eye examinations I wonder?
The child hadn't even seen a dentist until she was 5 years old. Most recently the dentist had found numerous cavities


everything is kept a secret until I find out about it or ask questions that lead me to figuring out, even then I am still kept in a really dark

there is no legal requirement on her to share this information but it doesn't really reflect good on her when she doesn't - you're just an access parent and you just need to see your child and you don't need to know anything about anything else.. sigh.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2016, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
Bear in mind that not every unexpected event is a material change in the sense you're thinking of. All kinds of life events can be unexpected but they don't all have a bearing on what is best for the child.

I believe the test is: would the custody arrangements in the order have been different if the change had been known at the time the order was made? In other words, if it had been known at the time you divorced that Kid would have trouble in school in the future, would the judge have decided against sole custody to Mom? Maybe yes, maybe no. I think you're better off not trying to argue that there's been a material change and sticking with the idea that 50/50 residence is best for the child, and that you and Mom will be able to make it work.
and it is very likely these things won't be a change anymore by the time I get a chance to prove them..

Can't touch access without a material change, if a material change threshold is not met the case is dismissed right there and then the negativity starts to impact everyone involved, the parents, the child, the courts, the community, etc.. and ultimately the judges are held accountable to the public.. sole custody is bad, very bad
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2016, 12:46 AM
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so the child is already getting help from the school from a Special Education Resource Teacher . Isn't that like tutoring?

I have reached out to the school to discuss the child's school and find out whether they have recommended tutoring ...

meanwhile I have agreed that tutoring is a good way to get extra help but I am being accused of doing no reading or writing with child whatsoever during the time that I already have with the child .... was me denying paid tutoring and offering to help after school mon ,wed and friday evidence that I do no reading or writing during the time I already have ? I do help child with reading and writing while she is in my care ...
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