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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2016, 10:33 AM
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Hello friends,

the other parent has contacted me informing child has been placed in private tutoring and that a payment is required tomorrow

i am in the courts going for joint custody and child has been struggling school for some time and the teacher had previously suggested counselling, mom did not take this suggestion

I have asked that child be in my care after school until mom get's home from school - I could of course do reading and writing with the child

my concerns are:

Can I say I want child in my care as opposed to tutoring?

Also I am seeing on the reciept that the payment was made a month ago, can I ask her why I am hearing about this decision 1 month after it was made and now that a payment is due?



this is supposed to start tomorrow

Last edited by trinton; 10-19-2016 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:40 PM
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Are you in any way qualified to help our your child in the subjects that require tutoring? If so...

"I did not consent to paid tutoring. If (child) is finding the material challenging, I am more than willing to help him/her after school on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays"

If you are unable to explain the material, denying the tutoring might be "unreasonable". Alternative note if you are not able to teach the material.

"I will contact the teacher of child to determine whether tutoring is appropriate. I will get back to you by October 25th. Until then, I do not consent to paid tutoring"
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:01 PM
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Default private tutoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Are you in any way qualified to help our your child in the subjects that require tutoring? If so...

"I did not consent to paid tutoring. If (child) is finding the material challenging, I am more than willing to help him/her after school on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays"

If you are unable to explain the material, denying the tutoring might be "unreasonable". Alternative note if you are not able to teach the material.

"I will contact the teacher of child to determine whether tutoring is appropriate. I will get back to you by October 25th. Until then, I do not consent to paid tutoring"


The thing is I already asked for after school care before school started and was denied.

Would it be the best to put the child in tutoring since mom is going to say no to the extra time and because the decision has already been made?

I know school recommended counselling and counselling is needed

This is a motion to change for joint and I'm wondering if this would be an agreement I could use for my claim of joint custody and a material change in circumstance


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Old 10-19-2016, 02:42 PM
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Contact the school and find out what programs they have available.

My son was having issues with math and attended on site tutoring once a week at school at no cost. Many have homework programs during lunch hours and after school as well.

What is the teacher saying about child's marks? Most schools have special education teachers that can help out.

What does ex have to substantiate the requirement of a tutor?

2 issues: she did not talk to you about Child education & she did not seek out approval in sect 7, look bad on her that she cannot co-parent.
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Old 10-19-2016, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by good_mom View Post
Contact the school and find out what programs they have available.

My son was having issues with math and attended on site tutoring once a week at school at no cost. Many have homework programs during lunch hours and after school as well.

What is the teacher saying about child's marks? Most schools have special education teachers that can help out.

What does ex have to substantiate the requirement of a tutor?

2 issues: she did not talk to you about Child education & she did not seek out approval in sect 7, look bad on her that she cannot co-parent.
I spoke with The special education at the teacher who is working with child on reading and writing mentioned child is behind in reading and writing

teacher recommended counselling for child previously but mom did not act on those recommendations.

she is communicating with me on the last day and always does this, never informs me of things in advance. previously when I let her know about a visi to the clinic on the same day, she argued I didn't let her know until 3 days later and she will inform me on things in that same way

The school basically is saying child is behind in reading and writing.

Mom won't say yes to child being under my care afterschool I know that much, i already asked before school started this year.

and I know child needs counselling . I have previously, many times asked for more time with child to do reading, writing, math, etc. always been no, no an dno.

How about something along the lines of:


I did not consent to paid tutoring. I am more than willing to help child after school on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays with reading and writing. The teacher mentioned counselling previously and this should be tried again because one year has passed since counselling was last attempted, counselling would really help child with self-esteem and confidence I would like to be a part of that.

Last edited by trinton; 10-19-2016 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 10-21-2016, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by trinton View Post
The other parent has contacted me informing child has been placed in private tutoring and that a payment is required tomorrow.
What is the problem with private tutoring? The other parent should have obtained your consent prior to doing this but, if the child needs the help then it will most certainly become an S.7 expense. Especially if the school (a third party) determines that it is required.

Ultimately, there is a good chance that you will be paying the proportional cost of this expense.

Other Parent Income (line 150) + Your Income (line 150) = House Hold Income
(Your Income / House Hold Income) * 100 = your % to pay
(Other Parent Income / House Hold Income) * 100 = other parent % to pay

Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
I am in the courts going for joint custody and child has been struggling school for some time and the teacher had previously suggested counselling, mom did not take this suggestion.
Teachers are not clinicians and any recommendation they make for clinical stuff won't hold much weight so the mother is well advised to cautiously approach advice on medical issues from someone who is (a) not legally qualified and (b) not professionally qualified. If this recommendation was coming from the school's registered social worker it would hold significantly more weight. Ultimately, it would be the child's family practitioner that should be making these recommendations in consultation with BOTH parents if no order for "sole custody" exists.

If there is no order for "sole custody" then you have defacto "joint custody" and you are free to discuss this with the family doctor. If you are in a good family practice the doctor will address the medical needs with BOTH parents and have a social worker on staff that can assist with any counselling (if needed).

If the child is old enough encourage them to call the Children's Help Phone:

https://www.kidshelpphone.ca/

Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
I have asked that child be in my care after school until mom get's home from school. I could of course do reading and writing with the child.
Sorry to inform you that it is highly unlikely that a court would order this. You can kindly ask for this but, a court won't order it. So, I would recommend you drop this idea if the other party is not in agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
my concerns are:

Can I say I want child in my care as opposed to tutoring?
If it is not your access *day* no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
Also I am seeing on the reciept that the payment was made a month ago, can I ask her why I am hearing about this decision 1 month after it was made and now that a payment is due?
You can ask but, if the service is needed you will have to pay it anways.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 10-21-2016, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
How about something along the lines of:

1) I did not consent to paid tutoring. (2) I am more than willing to help child after school on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays with reading and writing. (3) The teacher mentioned counselling previously and this should be tried again because one year has passed since counselling was last attempted, counselling would really help child with self-esteem and confidence I would like to be a part of that.
1. "I did not consent to paid tutoring."

Who cares about you. The whole concept is called "best interests of the child" not the "stupid bickering between parents". You have identified in this thread that the school has identified the child is behind in reading and writing. The other parent has acted on this and gotten the child help in their best interests.

The court will NOT CARE ONE BIT that you disagree as under the best interests test the other parent is acting in the child's BEST INTERESTS. If you do not consent or participate makes you look like a total jack ass.

2. "I am more than willing to help child after school on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays with reading and writing."

Is this your access time with the child or the other parent's access time? If it is the other parent's access time you can't tell them what to do. Nor can you expect them to agree to this. In reality a private tutor is the best option. If you don't want to participate in that when the child is residing with you it just makes you look like a jack ass. Putting the child's best interests first wouldn't it be best to have a professional tutor? Is the cost that significant that neither parent can afford it?

3. "The teacher mentioned counselling previously and this should be tried again because one year has passed since counselling was last attempted, counselling would really help child with self-esteem and confidence I would like to be a part of that."

The teacher isn't qualified to provide this advice. You should discuss with a proper clinician that is qualified to make this determination.

The school has stated the child needs remedial help. The other parent has acted in the child's best interests and gotten the child this help. You are trying to create an issue out of it. It just makes you look like a jack ass and a judge won't be impressed with your conflict and conduct.

You better start focusing on the best interests of the child involved rather than the fight you want to have with the other parent. You are just going to end up looking like an ass.

Be involved in the solution to problems. Don't create the problem!

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2016, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Sorry to inform you that it is highly unlikely that a court would order this. You can kindly ask for this but, a court won't order it. So, I would recommend you drop this idea if the other party is not in agreement.

This would be in the form of right of first refusal. The courts recognize and agree that a child should spend time with parents and grandparents before daycare providers, especially if they are in daycare 4 hours a day every day and 6 hours a day everyday in the summer, do you not agree?

counselling was recommended by school social worker
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Old 10-21-2016, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
This would be in the form of right of first refusal. The courts recognize and agree that a child should spend time with parents and grandparents before daycare providers, especially if they are in daycare 4 hours a day every day and 6 hours a day everyday in the summer, do you not agree?
No. The court does not recognize the right of first refusal. They are nonsense elements that courts do NOT enforce generally. In fact, a court is more than likely to REMOVE any agreement to FRoR and make it the responsibility of each parent to care for the child on their access time.

You are advised to read this article on the matter:

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

Whoever told you that a court will enforce FRoR is not well informed. When it comes to the other parent, no parent has a right to refuse anything. You may call it that but, the courts look at the best interests of the child first. Not the "right" of a parent to "refuse".

The reason these clauses are rarely (if ever?) enforced by a court is that they don't want parents coming back with contempt motions because a parent hired a babysitter instead of calling on another parent. Especially in situations like the one you are in where you are in conflict with the other parent.

You can't use the court system to "control" the other parent.

Quote:
This becomes a very sticky point, as both parents can be remarkably manipulative at withholding or at least not supporting the relationship with the other parent whilst coming up with ways to beat the rules.
This quote from the article, which outlines the impact to bickering over FRoR could result in, sticks out in red to me about the situation you have describe in this thread:

Quote:
the children suffer low self-esteem which in turn leads to greater risk of depression or alternately, acting out behaviour either of which in turn affects school performance.
You have outlined the self-esteem issues in the child, the challenges in school, etc... Have you ever considered that the bickering over such nonsense is causing an impact on the child in question?

Reflect upon your conduct over this issue that I am of the opinion no court would enforce. It seems very much like that you are trying to "manipulate" the "system" to gain an:

Quote:
advantage of a special relationship with the child to the other parent by virtue of more time
The court will see right through your attempts. To be frank, you are not clever nor is your strategy to try and get more time with the child through FRoR genuine in my humble opinion. This is a typical "Lesson 101" behavioral pattern that all good family law lawyers know and every sitting judge sees 100 times a day and dismisses. You are not being clever. Stop being clever and move on and plan your time with the child in question appropriately.

You are advised to focusing on your access time with the child in question and to stop trying to control the time the other parent arranges or spends with the child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
counselling was recommended by school social worker
Then kindly ask the school social worker to forward the clinical recommendation to the child in question's family practitioner to review. From there you can then discuss the matter with the family practitioner and request that the family practitioner discuss the matter with both parents.

Also don't get clever and try to use the Family Doctor against the other parent. Read this article...

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

Quote:
They ask doctors and dentists for letters stating which parent more often brought the children to appointments. They ask daycare providers and teachers how the child behaves depending on which parent drops off the child. In the process, the parent also informs the professional of his or her version of events, thus going beyond asking for a letter of support, by actively recruiting the professional to his or her side of the dispute.
This kind of conduct outlined in this article is also family law 101 stuff that you shouldn't engage in. It isn't clever. It isn't a great idea.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 10-21-2016, 01:40 PM
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so are you suggesting here that I am seeking to increase my time with my child as a way to control the other parent?

It's not really the case and it is more so of the case of the child being vocal in my care and desperately and eagerly and anxiously being excited about and wanting to spend more time in my care

We do have the maximum contact principal and clearly the child is not thriving under the primary care of the custodial parent or with the current regime and it needs to be changed to better meet the child's best interests
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