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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 03-12-2014, 11:05 PM
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Default Post-secondary slacking

My S20 failed more than half his courses in his first year of college. Now in his second year, he failed 5 courses and dropped out of his other two... in the first semester!!! (video game addict)

His mother is an enabler and my attempts to reason with him have failed so far. My D23 will be graduating from a bachelor program (she did make some mistakes which is costing a fifth year for a four year program, but she's doing well and CS + S7 will likely continue into her Masters degree)

I will be putting my ex and effectively S20 on notice that unless he attains a 70% average and does not fail or drop courses after deadline, I will be filing to terminate CS for him.

Has anyone here had to do this? If so, how did it go? And does anyone have a sample letter for such a notice?

Thanks
C
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:12 AM
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[QUOTE=Coop;166251]I will be putting my ex and effectively S20 on notice that unless he attains a 70% average and does not fail or drop courses after deadline, I will be filing to terminate CS for him.[/quote\

1. Why bother with the 70% nonsense?

2. You are only obligated to pay 1/3 of his education if he remains enrolled full time in the program.

3. Don't provide silly details like this.

4. Either get a signed agreement to end CS/S7 expense payments from the other parent or a court order. Don't stop paying on your own terms. If you are in the wrong you will be slapped hard by a justice.

5. Talk to a lawyer before doing anything rash. Follow their advice!
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:13 AM
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If they have failed and dropped courses, is he still considered a full time student? That is the real question. If he is not a full time student, you are not obligated to pay c/s for him.

Also, if he does re-enroll as a full time student in another course, and the same cycle of failure happens again, you can argue that any future enrollments appear to be strictly an attempt to continue c/s payments and not a good faith attempt to further his education. Further, that given his history, you don't believe he there is a reasonable chance that he will complete this program either. Should that happen, that c/s should cease permanently.

However, if he successful, you will continue to support him as required.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:19 AM
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Having a bad year does not mean a child is not entitled to support.

From Alberta:
CanLII - 2011 ABQB 574 (CanLII)

From Sask:
CanLII - 2008 SKQB 460 (CanLII)

From Ontario:
CanLII - 2013 ONSC 5002 (CanLII)

You may wish to contemplate the above case law when considering your case.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:56 AM
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Curious as to what you are doing to support the kid's success?
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:03 PM
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How many " intact" families face this dilemma. Your child attends post secondary education and for what ever reason screws up and fails over and over again! Some parents just keep paying and enabling, others set boundaries and academic achievement levels in order to continue paying and others just cutoff their offspring. In fact, god forbid, some parents, from the get go, say pay for your own education. AND no one can wave a piece of paper and say " oh no our agreement says!"

But when one parent is receiving CS and I guess Section 7 expenses the rules do seem to change. And adult children can be masters at that game.

Keep on enrolling, because I am not the one paying. My parents are duking this one out. I am entitled!

Maybe everyone out there putting together an agreement should be looking forward to the College years ( which are the most expensive s7 years) and putting in a success clause. Only pay after the marks are in!
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
Having a bad year does not mean a child is not entitled to support.
Having 1 bad year does not disqualify the entitlement to child support. But having multiple bad years may, if one can show that there is a pattern to the child failing to complete their studies and there is no reasonable belief that the child will follow through in subsequent attempts.

Signing up for full time classes, then failing and dropping out repeated, causing the child to cease to be a full-time student in each event, may be determined by a judge a reasonable as cause to cease c/s.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachnana View Post
How many " intact" families face this dilemma. Your child attends post secondary education and for what ever reason screws up and fails over and over again! Some parents just keep paying and enabling, others set boundaries and academic achievement levels in order to continue paying and others just cutoff their offspring. In fact, god forbid, some parents, from the get go, say pay for your own education. AND no one can wave a piece of paper and say " oh no our agreement says!"

But when one parent is receiving CS and I guess Section 7 expenses the rules do seem to change. And adult children can be masters at that game.

Keep on enrolling, because I am not the one paying. My parents are duking this one out. I am entitled!

Maybe everyone out there putting together an agreement should be looking forward to the College years ( which are the most expensive s7 years) and putting in a success clause. Only pay after the marks are in!
How would that actually be a benefit? So one parent has to pay 100% of school expenses and then after a year, they may get reimbursed if the marks are good enough? How do you decide which parent pays up front and which parent pays when the marks are in?
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:06 PM
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My daughter was only 17 (2 months before 18th bday) when she started screwing up. I was kept completely in the dark by the ex. Started noticing her on facebook every night and wondering how she could be keeping up her schoolwork. I contacted the school and found out she was de-mitted from school for non-attendance. Mother claimed she was ill.

She re-enrolled in the following semester, by this time she turned 18. She again went for about 1 week and started missing again, until she was no longer going again. I went to the school and obtained copies of her school records and could not believe my eyes when i saw most these absences was called in by her mother.

But by the end of the semester (june) she was being marked truant. I saw a lawyer, he filed a motion to stop cs and within 5 weeks it was stopped on a temporary basis until the ex could provide doctors reports indicating her illness. My daughter has never had health issues. We were scheduled for a long motion the following October.

My daughter again re-enrolled in September, by the time we went to court she had begun missing time again. Judge then ordered CS to be paid back that I overpaid from Jan - June and $1200 in costs. Ex is now paying me $100 per month until paid in full. Unfortunately my daughter only now has a grade 11 education, thanks to mom trying to be her friend instead of her parent.
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:03 PM
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Tayken, the 70% was suggested by my lawyer who has been candid and far more knowledgeable on family law. So far, he is much appreciated compared to my previous one who would have let fight futile arguments until I filed for bankruptcy.

As far as what am I doing to assist in my children's success? I helped my D over the phone and email with calculus/maths and physics homework many times and paying CS and my 46% of S7 towards her BSc and then masters. As far as S20, he's been not completing home work for his entire 5 years of high school, but they don't fail students anymore. How can I get him to do his assignments? Well I'm not allowed to try anything creative to assist. I was allowed to do it once, and received no support from his mother when he refused the help. You see. I'm stupid and don't know anything. And I should just be quiet and keep paying to pretend like he's learning something (academically or life lessons).

It hasn't been only one year of post-secondary failure. This is year two and it is going far worse than year one. So I am putting him on notice for year three (too late for this semester). It's going to do one of two things:

  1. Motivate him and/or his mother to make it a top priority to discuss goals, create a plan, celebrate success no matter how small and show how much closer to greater enlightenment and opportunity.
  2. Provide evidence at a chance to suspend support until he has a chance to grow up. He can always reinstate. To just allow him to go through the motions without consequence is much more harmful IMHO (Plenty of case law on consistent failure to cease support - attendance can't be proven in most post-secondary institutions)

Beachnana, I hear what you are saying! But I'd almost prefer to pay upfront and my son gets direct deposit into his account for each assignment/exam deemed a "pass" or "obviously tried and failed". But try to implement that and wouldn't be fair to many others, like my daughter.

Hammerdad...bang on. I would love nothing more to watch him succeed. But no one is teaching him to dream about his future and then execute. As much as I have to remain hopeful, I fear he doesn't realize that his happiness depends on effort towards goals. Either way, I will still be there.

Katcar, thank you for answering what I was asking. Did you put them on notice or give them a warning before filing? If it was a formal warning, can you pm me with a copy (with names blanked out of course)? My lawyer is good, but he's also $565/hr and I'd prefer to send notice myself. Thanks again.

Maybe a notice is not that complicated, but I thought I'd check. I can't stand missing important things that "should" be included.

If anyone else has dealt with this type of situation, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks again
C

Last edited by Coop; 03-13-2014 at 09:09 PM.
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