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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2009, 04:42 PM
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Ginger_Mallow said
"As the University is 2 hours from home, she is living in residence. I had proposed to my ex that during the months she is at school, I would only pay her directly for the 1 younger daughter still at home. I would take the amount that made up the difference and give it to my older daughter, plus I would contribute extra to help with tuition and living expenses.

The Judge didn't agree with my position. He stated that since my daughter would still be coming home every once in a while, plus Christmas break, Spring break and Summer, that my ex would still have to maintain her room. Therefore, I still need to give the full amount of child support plus contribute my fair share to the University expenses."

This is why people get upset over the CS continuing while the child is in post-sec. school. All it is now is spousal support. It should go directly to the adult that it is intended for. If she is over 18 and can drive, drink and vote, and doesn't live at home, she should be given respect by both parents that she is now responsible enough to use that money (while at post-sc.) in an adult manner.

Maybe you could point out to the judge (respectively) that you too have maintained a "room" in your home for your children when they visit and holidays. You have maintained it (for X number of years, without compensation) in almost the same manner that the ex wife is now going to (for visits, holidays), and yet the judge thinks she should be paid full child support for this?
The child doesn't live with her or you, the money (if any, which I disagee with at any rate) should go directly to the adult.

The only thing our lawyer has told us is that, in most cases, even if you are told to still pay CS, it is almost always a lower amount, not the full amount. I would try to get it lowered at the VERY least.
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2009, 05:08 PM
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Ginger-Mallow
The tax credits (400&65/mon)that you are refering to are not monies that are paid back to the student. What they are is a CREDIT against any income that the student may have earned. I utilized these 4 & 7 yrs ago when I went back to school myself as an adult. I didnt get a bonus check from the govt but it did help to reduce my taxpayable and to a young student they might get more income tax back. I wish it would have been as I was a single/separated mom trying tomake it on our own... sure would have helped. Unfortunately it really has no bearing on CS guidelines as far as I know.
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2009, 09:19 PM
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Got2bkid
Im in the same boat as you. Had 2 in post secondary and 2 younger ones at home and paying through the nose. Im back in court on Feb 5th to try and get this straightened out a bit. BUT now things have changed a bit. She was mad at my 14 yr old and dropped him off at my door step in early Nov 08. Found out it was not only an argument but was a good slap in the face for my 14 yr old. My soon to be 20 yr old is in Sarina taking firefighting because Algonquin in Ottawa wouldn't take his low marks from high school. He has already failed 1 course. Get better. My daughter, soon to be 21 has finished her 2 yr nursing course at Algonquin and has been working since last May. Ask her mom and she was still a child of the marriage until she received her diploma June 14th of last yr. She also lived out of house with friends at first then with her boyfriend. Ask her mom and it was a rooming house. Found out early last yr though that the ex was renting out the room in her house (saved for my son when he comes home from collage) to foreign exchange students. One was there all of school yr 06-07 and the last one was kicked out early last yr. I'm hoping that will give me some leverage when I go to court this week to have the CS reduced and hoping to have any monies that are ordered to the child in collage directed right to him with her % on it since his room has been full the whole time he has been away. Come to think of it...technically I was the only one with a room that was available if he had of come home.
I see your pain and share it with you. Hopefully I can come back in the afternoon on the 5th and tell you that finally I won in court as a payer.
I forgot to mention that she did agree almost 7 yrs ago that S7 expenses would be $2500 and reduced that down to $1500 2 yrs ago

Last edited by OttawaM43; 02-01-2009 at 09:22 PM. Reason: forgot a part
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 04:12 PM
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OttawaM43 - just wondering how things worked out for you?
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 06:13 PM
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Sorry everyone for the delay. Ive been doing the happy dance for the last 4 hrs and just got home. Here is the scoop....
First Id like to say that I did go into this court (without a lawyer) looking for a final answer to these issues but was told right up front that this would be a case conference and not a final motion. The Judge was a different judge then the usual one I have seen before. He was very good at listening (to a point) BUT kept us both on track of what HIS thoughts were going to be about the situation at hand. After I tried to tell him that I was being bad mouthed by my ex to my older 2 kids and that my 14 yr old showed up on my door step with 2 bags of dirty laundry after an argument, we proceeded. (Not much was said about the above except raised eye brows) Then we got into the meat of things after he said he had actually read the notes of the last judge, May 2007. Looking at my ex he asked why I was paying child support for 2 children that were living away from home to attend collage. Then he asked where the S7 @ $1500 was going to which there was no real reply except that it was all for the kids. He asked me why I was paying CS guide lines for 2 kids that were not at home and where this S7 $1500 was going. I explained that as far as I knew the CS was supposed to go to the old 2 kids and the $1500 was to be split between them to help for their Post Secondary. I also mentioned the Conservative tax credit for sports to be applied to hockey for the 2 little ones. Right away he said that that is going to stop and ALL CS paid for the 2 older ones would be deemed S7 expenses for their education and that the $1500 for the extra ordinary would be used for the same. Looking at me he said since you have been paying CS guidelines while they have been away at school that my situation was looking good. He said basically this is how we are going to do this. Take the total of each child's post secondary expenses IE. tuition, rent, food etc. Get a grand total....Minus bursaries and then take 1/3 off that total for their portion. Leaving 2/3 of their post secondary education expenses. Now the remainder will be shared in proportion of incomes. Meaning I will be paying approx. 67% of the 2/3s out of my proportion and all the CS I paid for the 2 older kids would be applied as a credit to my 67% My ex will now have to show that she has contributed 33% of this 2/3s Done deal ! The remaining 2 younger kids (1 in my care and one in hers) will be dealt with using the CS guidelines in proportion to our incomes. Approx. $267 per month from me to her. Overview... I will likely have to pay anywhere from $9000-$16000 to the OSAP of my older kids. They will have the benefit of having a smaller OSAP debt when finished their studies. CS as I have known it for the last 7 yrs will stop for them. The money NEVER goes into the hands of my ex, taking away her power to do as she pleases with it.
I would like to thank the judge for the clarity that was shown today and hope that ALL in these blogs can take this and use it for themselves.
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 06:45 PM
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Sorry everyone for the delay. Ive been doing the happy dance for the last 4 hrs and just got home. Here is the scoop....
First Id like to say that I did go into this court (without a lawyer) looking for a final answer to these issues but was told right up front that this would be a case conference and not a final motion. The Judge was a different judge then the usual one I have seen before. He was very good at listening (to a point) BUT kept us both on track of what HIS thoughts were going to be about the situation at hand. After I tried to tell him that I was being bad mouthed by my ex to my older 2 kids and that my 14 yr old showed up on my door step with 2 bags of dirty laundry after an argument, we proceeded. (Not much was said about the above except raised eye brows) Then we got into the meat of things after he said he had actually read the notes of the last judge, May 2007. Looking at my ex he asked why I was paying child support for 2 children that were living away from home to attend collage. Then he asked where the S7 @ $1500 was going to which there was no real reply except that it was all for the kids. He asked me why I was paying CS guide lines for 2 kids that were not at home and where this S7 $1500 was going. I explained that as far as I knew the CS was supposed to go to the old 2 kids and the $1500 was to be split between them to help for their Post Secondary. I also mentioned the Conservative tax credit for sports to be applied to hockey for the 2 little ones. Right away he said that that is going to stop and ALL CS paid for the 2 older ones would be deemed S7 expenses for their education and that the $1500 for the extra ordinary would be used for the same. Looking at me he said since you have been paying CS guidelines while they have been away at school that my situation was looking good. He said basically this is how we are going to do this. Take the total of each child's post secondary expenses IE. tuition, rent, food etc. Get a grand total....Minus bursaries and then take 1/3 off that total for their portion. Leaving 2/3 of their post secondary education expenses. Now the remainder will be shared in proportion of incomes. Meaning I will be paying approx. 67% of the 2/3s out of my proportion and all the CS I paid for the 2 older kids would be applied as a credit to my 67% My ex will now have to show that she has contributed 33% of this 2/3s Done deal ! The remaining 2 younger kids (1 in my care and one in hers) will be dealt with using the CS guidelines in proportion to our incomes. Approx. $267 per month from me to her. Overview... I will likely have to pay anywhere from $9000-$16000 to the OSAP of my older kids. They will have the benefit of having a smaller OSAP debt when finished their studies. CS as I have known it for the last 7 yrs will stop for them. The money NEVER goes into the hands of my ex, taking away her power to do as she pleases with it.
I would like to thank the judge for the clarity that was shown today and hope that ALL in these blogs can take this and use it for themselves.
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2009, 02:13 PM
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Do you have any idea what happens when an age of majority child, sends a letter to her payor parent telling him that she doesn't need him in her life anymore and only considers him to be a biological father. Long story...child & mom move away to another province 4 years ago, child seems angry. Dad has no idea where they live or phone #. Child contacts dad 6 months later by phone and wants to see dad...dad agrees..then child says they don't want to see him, hangs up. 8 months pass mom starts legal bs ...wants more money. legal process goes on for 2 1/2 years. Finally settle. Dad starts talking to estranged child again, now 18. Child communicates by e-mails, phone calls, and after several months, the child sends a letter stating they don't need dad anymore, she has everything she needs without him.
Question: do you have any idea if he is still obligated to pay support for the child? Would this not appear to be 'unilateral termination' of the relationship by the child? Do you have any idea?
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2009, 04:43 PM
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I think you have cause to go backto court and terminate CS. Just my thoughts
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2009, 06:49 PM
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From what I've read, I'm not the only one that finds it unfair that divorced/separated parents could be forced to pay for post-secondary education + child support - especially when one considers that if the marriage didn't break down there would be no law mandating such contributions.

My ex and I have a written agreement which calls for the termination of child support payments when our daughter reaches the age of 19. My lawyer told me it was registered with the Ontario Courts (but not the FRO) as a result of my ex trying in vain to increase support payments when I entered into a serious relationship with my new wife. I have set up an RESP and I hope that it will fund at least the tuition and books for a typical four year degree in a typical Canadian university (e.g. $9k / year). This would be less than my current annual CS payments.

Would I be correct that should my ex apply before the courts to have me continue CS payments after my daughter turns 19, she would likely be successful?
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2009, 07:14 PM
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I know one thing, that there is the family law act & the divorce act. Family law act is for those who were never married, divorce act is for those who married. Under FLA, I believe that your current agreement should be binding, however under DA (divorce act), the divorce act overrides any court order or agreement and CS would continue. Any age of majority child, can apply to the courts to obtain CS from both parents, by filing themselves, because it is the childs right to obtain continued support. Hopefully, your agreement will stand, and I'm certain if you are putting money away to help fund your daughters education, she will seek no further recourse.
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