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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2015, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Don't listen to these people. Hammerdad is an EoW dad and he is happy about it.
Where do you get this information from? Yeah, I am EOW....on paper. I signed what I signed a long time ago and I had my reasoning. I've achieved a fair amount over the years since then. I am more than that now. And I didn't achieve that by trying to screw over my ex either.

I also understand that it is the agreement I signed and now I am stuck with it should my ex ever want to be difficult. You see I live in a world where if I sign an agreement to do something, I actually do it. Same goes for when a judge tells me I need to do something via court order, I don't ignore it because it suits me. That only works to piss of the judges, no where what province you live in.

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14 year olds can decide where they want to live. In Quebec, the judge does what 14 year olds say.

File a motion to change custody but don't oblige your kid to go back.
The OP may not be in Quebec . And even if the OP does live in Quebec, the judge would still admonish them for acting contrary to the order, notwithstanding that the child is provided with some discretion.

And not parenting, just because they are a certain age...wow, that's some sort of example you expect him to lead.....

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If the police come to your door again unless they are there to enforce an order of the judge (i.e: the judge has ordered them to do X, Y or Z) or respond to a criminal complaint or suspicious behaviour ask them to leave immediately.

If your ex files a motion, go to court - explain to the judge your son wants to live with you and why, he is happy, not in danger and you feel like it would have negative long term consequences to force him back and you have filed the paperwork to make it official. If the judge wants to force your kid back let them do it, make your kid hate the system more.... Don't be their tool.

If your son has the ability/confidence have him come to court to. Let the judge tell him to his face.

These strangers in black robes want to tell your kid to not live with you even though he wants to and you are a good dad? Why?

Judges are former lawyers and lawyer are one of the most mistrusted professionals in the world. They are also all there to keep the family court system running as it provides 30% of the case load for these good for nothing losers.
In reading the rest, while you like to dance around the point, you do ultimately make the right statement of "file a motion". When the ex files a motion, the OP may be successful in gaining more time with the kid. But it won't be without a lot of drama or being reprimanded by the courts.

As for the grandiose wisdom of putting the kid in the middle and encouraging them to hate the system, that is just LOLbad advice. Yeah, lets put the kid right the middle of an issue between their parents, encourage them to take sides and disregard the court system...because that will help them SO MUCH when they enter the real world..... Let's all rage against the machine..... umm no... smart people know better then to do this. And good parents don't put their kids in the middle of their battles and use them as weapons. That is just some of the worst advice I think I have ever read on this board. I honestly think I am dumber now because of reading it....

Not doing what the court requires of you is not the answer.

Last edited by HammerDad; 05-22-2015 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:59 PM
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Take a lot of what Links says with a grain of salt. Hes still battling his ex in court.

Try talking to your ex first. Even in writing if necessary. Think of the kid and what they want etc. Perhaps a trial period of increased access to test if thats what he really wants. From the sounds of it she'll shut that down quickly and get hostile. File a motion to change if thats what your son really wants. Dont wait around and breach the order. Remind your kid you have an order and you have to uphold it but you will work with mom to make the necessary changes they all can live with. Maybe kid can get through to mom?
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Old 05-22-2015, 03:29 PM
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Kids testify all the time in court and have private conferences with judges.
They can even be represented by lawyers.

I was in court yesterday half the lawyers there were representing the children actually.

I am sorry you signed away your rights, I am sure you regret it. Why did you agree to being EoW?

Its every person's duty to oppose injustice. Sheep abide by injustice, fight against things that you know are wrong - that's what I teach my kids.
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Old 05-22-2015, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Kids testify all the time in court and have private conferences with judges. They can even be represented by lawyers.
Yes they do. But in most cases it is not preferred and looked upon negatively. Courts don't like having kids involved in parental matters.

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I was in court yesterday half the lawyers there were representing the children actually.
You seem to be in court a lot.

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I am sorry you signed away your rights, I am sure you regret it. Why did you agree to being EoW?
Where did you get the notion that I signed away my rights? My agreement, and each amending agreement, is fairly comprehensive. While the agreement does provide for EoW parenting time, there is a fair amount of other clauses in it which protect my rights and my ability to parent. I agree to certain things because a) my ex and I were on the same page when it comes to parenting, b) in the grand scheme of things they were minor and c) I'd rather not spend tens of thousands of $$ (of my money, or in some cases, their parents) in court costs/legal fees on matters that weren't significant (ie. I wasn't about to fight for the sake of fighting).

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Its every person's duty to oppose injustice. Sheep abide by injustice, fight against things that you know are wrong - that's what I teach my kids.
I agree. Putting the kids in the middle is wrong, hence my post.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2015, 06:58 PM
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Additional question to the OP's... Just curious what one is expected to do when the child physically refuses to go back to the other parent's house? aside from being in a position to or big enough to over power the kid which is just not a good strategy, what do people suggest?
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Old 05-22-2015, 07:22 PM
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I immediately think of kid-currency - cell phones/computers which both can easily be disconnected/disabled.
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Old 05-22-2015, 07:46 PM
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Well that's the point isn't it? I signed an agreement giving me EoW plus every Monday. Not bad right? Depends how much you want or think you need to be part of your child's life. An important issue for me is making sure my child has balance and so having enough access becomes an issue. If you and your wife are on the same page then I can see why there is less concern in terms of balance. In my case (our my son and I) the things that affected me and drove me crazy about my ex wife are creeping into the life of my 14 yr old male teenager. As he becomes a young man he gets the same mental abuse I had to put up with. Hard enough for me to withstand and I was a grown man! That combined with her other oddball views means my son needs both parents actively engaged in his life. So 1 night a week does not seem to fit my son's needs any longer and do I blame him? of course not.

ok. One thing I do take issue with is some comments Hammer made re teaching my son to respect the order etc. This is a terrible skewed view on the order. My boy has absolutely nothing to do with this order. Lets be clear about this. This is an agreement between his parents. My view may be different than most on this. He never signed anything. If he can make decisions about drugs, sex, and smoking etc at school everyday then I can certainly respect his ability to make these decisions here.

I agreed to this 1 night a week thing for now to avoid further conflict and avoid spending 10k$ or more which I felt should be spent on my son. But now only a year later I see things are different. It's not like when he was 9 or 10. He cannot be used as a weapon anymore and all the years of frustration at what seems like a bias (against dad) system are melting away. It's not a matter of a magical age where he does not have to listen to the order (he never did) it's a matter of the fact that we are dealing with a thinking and responsible individual now whose preference matters. I'm not a danger to him etc., so I expect that to be respected and taken into consideration. A few more years and the power should shift completely over to him. If he wanted to be over at mom's more than I have to respect that also. I do not envy parents with kids still to young to have any real voice.

Let's not be naive - most kids by the time they are 16 are already dictating what there schedule is and they work it out with both parents like an adult. That what I encourage my son to do.Obviously jumping back and forth because you don't like being served cauliflowers on a Tues or whatever is going to be a problem. Not for the kid for the parents - so the parents have to put there foot down. But ya if your mom takes away your phone because you dare want to see you dad and only promise to give it back if you say no to your dad 5 times, or if you are forced to sit there and be lectured for an hour in what basically amounts to mental torture and brainwashing, then sorry I say then don't put up with the games or abuse.

I certainly won't shut the door on him or explain how a good boy follows the order. We all know that justice is a dull sword and these court decisions are never black and white. None of us here are that naive right? The over riding factor in all cases has to be the best interest of the child.

The new uncharted territory is having the police show up at midnight! Sneaky. Why show up if you can's enforce anything. I realize now that one of the cops was being nice when he asked if the order was "enforceable" He was giving me a hint but I did not realize it. The other was being a bit of a jerk.

I think the best thing might just to continue to be supportive of my son and see what happens. If I get brought in for contempt then I can discuss the issues with the judge then. Maybe ask for a social worker to do an interview with my son. I'm sure that's why my ex called the cops to have some ammo going into court.

If you know your son wants to see the OP 50% of the time why deny that right? to not lose out on your child support payments of course. You think I have sympathy for that kind of behavior. Sorry i don't. Don't complain or call the cops and we have no problem. Don't deny the child because of some previous order. If we both agreed on everything from here on out we'd never spend another dime in court right?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
I immediately think of kid-currency - cell phones/computers which both can easily be disconnected/disabled.
Sorry I of course disagree. Tempting but what are you teaching you kid? How to manipulate, bribe, .. etc..? take the phone away if it's warranted as a punishment for not eating your veggies or something. But saying if you leave my home and go to your other parent, I'll let you keep you phone does not sit right with me.

Worse even is the issue that kids don't think in terms of orders and paper work. All they know is they want to be with you for some reason. Do your child a favor and find out why they don't want to go back.

Anyway after 14 as in my case, in my view its pure rejection at that point. It's not about mommy or daddy getting their "time" its about the 14 yr old getting HIS time.

A complete flip
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Old 05-22-2015, 08:31 PM
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Hey Harold - check your post, specifically "...But ya if your mom takes away your phone because you dare want to see you dad and only promise to give it back if you say no to your dad 5 times...." You know what's in the order. Why then would your son have to say no to you 5 times? Sounds to me like you are the problem here.

Regarding removing gadgets as punishment, I think you have to "parent" and being the nice guy all the time may win you some popularity with your son but certainly doesn't teach him reality of life - you do something against the rules you suffer the consequences.

"I think the best thing might just to continue to be supportive of my son and see what happens. If I get brought in for contempt then I can discuss the issues with the judge then..."

^so you think it's a good thing to intentionally dishonour a court order? All you're doing is setting a bad example and showing your son that you think you are above the law and court orders are not to be taken seriously.

I believe people who take this attitude are aptly referred to as "high conflict" and "vexatious." Our jails are full of people who thumb their nose at laws.

Last edited by arabian; 05-22-2015 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 05-22-2015, 09:01 PM
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Both of you didn't fight because of the cost.

Let them take you to court for contempt, so what?

Possession is 3/4 of the law...

There is a known fact that kids of the same gender are better off with parents of the same gender
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