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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 03-28-2014, 10:01 AM
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Default Pocket Call - is it evidence or at least reportable

Hi all,


yesterday, I received a pocket call from my stbx's cell phone right after having had my access phone call with my oldest daughter from the same cell phone.

During the call, several disparaging (heartbreaking) things where said by my stbx to my daughter about me.

This was obviously not meant to be heard by me, BUT its still wrong for her to be denigrating me like that to my daughter.

The OCL is involved.

Does anyone feel that I have the moral grounds to report this to the OCL despite the fact that the call was not meant to be heard by me ?

What the stbx is doing is wrong.


Any opinions are welcome.

thanks

Last edited by plainNamedDad44; 03-28-2014 at 10:08 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:32 AM
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I am certainly without any personal experience of raising children while in the midst of a family court matter.

I recently posted a case from BC about mother who lost her children due to parental alienation. You might want to read the case to get insight into what a court looks at in determining parental alienation.

I would think that what you have is something of value in that you can have someone intervene now rather before the alienation gets out-of-control as it did with the family in the case.

It may not be admissible evidence in court but the taped call might show systemic alienation on your ex's part. Hopefully with this information, the counsellors would be able to recommend counselling for your ex and daughter (if need be) to correct their behaviour.

My comments may very well be naive and unrealistic. However, I do feel that you should show this to someone who is in a position to make some recommendation for intervention so this doesn't continue on into the future.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:40 AM
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A, many many thanks.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:41 AM
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I'm pretty sure that under the rules of evidence that recordings that are not made with the consent of at least one of the participants are not legal, so therefore cannot be used in court. That you didn't intend to record or hear the conversation means you are not criminally responsible (mens rea), but nonetheless I would think the recording itself would not be admissable.

But other agencies would not perhaps look at it so legalistically. You might not be able to bring it up in court as evidence, but you might share with CAS.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:49 AM
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This is the BC case to which I was referring to:

J.C.W. v. J.K.R.W., 2014 BCSC 488 (CanLII), <CanLII - 2014 BCSC 488 (CanLII)

If your daughter is showing outward signs of exhibiting resistance to going with you on your access days then I would be very, very concerned.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:20 AM
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Talking to the OCL does not need to follow the rules of evidence.

Before disclosing what you heard, consider what you want to come out of the situation. Has there been alienation? Did the comments deal with personality, conduct during or after marriage, abilities as a parent, etc.?

If there is a problem - one parent disparaging the other in front of the children - there is nothing wrong with saying to the OCL, "dear XXX, after a call my ex pocket dialed and I overheard them saying YYY and ZZZ to our child. This concerns me because AAA, but I am not sure what to do. I don't think it is right for our child to hear, however, and hope you can assist".
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
Talking to the OCL does not need to follow the rules of evidence.

Before disclosing what you heard, consider what you want to come out of the situation. Has there been alienation? Did the comments deal with personality, conduct during or after marriage, abilities as a parent, etc.?

If there is a problem - one parent disparaging the other in front of the children - there is nothing wrong with saying to the OCL, "dear XXX, after a call my ex pocket dialed and I overheard them saying YYY and ZZZ to our child. This concerns me because AAA, but I am not sure what to do. I don't think it is right for our child to hear, however, and hope you can assist".

OL Many, many thanks.

I love this forum. Hope to pay it forward.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:29 AM
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My partner has it in the agreement the kids will be kept from adult conflict and neither party will speak despairingly of the other. Is it followed by his ex? NO! The oldest is constantly saying stuff to him that only came from the mother and when he said one thing to her in response, the ex tried to come after him. The advice his lawyer gave him was to just be consistent and supportive of the kids. You cant enforce this idea of not speaking that way or force them to stop. Its going to happen no matter what you do. Hopefully in time your daughter will see through the bs and realize for herself.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
This is the BC case to which I was referring to:

J.C.W. v. J.K.R.W., 2014 BCSC 488 (CanLII), <CanLII - 2014 BCSC 488 (CanLII)

If your daughter is showing outward signs of exhibiting resistance to going with you on your access days then I would be very, very concerned.

Its passive resistance. She'll wear her ipod and earphones when in the car. She will stay in her room when I have her.


I am worried.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:05 PM
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Be loving, supportive, and patient with this. I know first hand what you are going through. My ex is doing the same thing to our boys. He says I was the one who broke the family up etc. Its frustrating.

When the kids come to me with this shit I tell them I'm sorry that their dad is involving them in our "grownup problems". I tell them I love them and always will, no matter what. I remind them that their dad loves them too and he's having trouble coping with the separation. I tell them that they shouldn't worry abt anything. I gently remind them that if they ever need to talk they can trust me as I will not judge.

Kids have an amazing way of seeing the truth for what it is. We underestimate them. When you provide a positive atmosphere they will feel comfortable with you. Everytime they go see the alienating parent they will have their guard up. At some point we all get tired of hearing negative stuff. Enough is enough.
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