Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2006, 06:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 225
Jenny is on a distinguished road
Default

You say he * could* earn more money? Has he ever earned more money in the marriage- I'm not talking about more than you - I mean -has he ever earned more money then he is now? If not I doubt the courts would impute income to him or say he could earn more.

Because as Grace says -conduct doesn't have any relevence(he smokes, drinks , is a basic jerk) to the support you will have to pay. You need to separate that emotional aspect of that and look at this objectively within the framework of the law. Hard to do but in the long run it will be better for you financially and emotionally.

Your kids are old enough that the abuse issue is moot. You are not talking custody but rather money and as it has been mentioned behaviour isn't relevent.

I think because you didn't get the answers you wanted to hear - that is no need to knock the board- I for one am very appreciative of Jeff and this board. It has really been a great resource for me with my divorce. Thanks Jeff

Just my humble opinion .... take it or leave it .
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2006, 09:03 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 19
customgal is on a distinguished road
Default

Well, maybe I am completely stupid, but in my world if you have no problem affording $400.00 per month for bingo, $200.00 per month for cigarettes, not to mention a couple hundred more for the casino, another $200.00 a month for booze and whatever the going price for marijuana to supply yourself and friends, then I fail to see how he can not afford to live on his own paycheck. And I also fail to see how another human being can be responsible for paying for those addictions.

I did not mean to knock this forum -- I only was hoping it could give me some useful and hopeful tips to see how others were making out on the subject of spousal support and it is very frustrating to say the least, that people are seemingly being forced to pay for the upkeep of an adult once that relationship ends. I have read and understand the spousal support guidelines a whole lot differently...but what I am of the understanding here, from your responses, is that nothing else matters except for the fact I earn more then he does. But in my opinion, and that of my lawyer's, that is not a done deal for entitlement to spousal support.

As Jeff mentioned before, you just don't walk into a court room and get it. So, tell me, how can a judge or court feel sorry for my ex in this case and award him support? Isn't each case judged on its own merits? Do the guidelines not specifically say "a mere disparity of income between the parties does not guarantee entitlement to spousal support?" (or something like that).

If this is so, then are you people suggesting that everyone who earns less then their spouse and demands spousal support can get it, no questions asked? And we call this a law?

What about his obligations to his child(ren)? Does he not have any obligations to me, simply because I have been the higher income earner for 4 years out of this 23 year marriage? Does the fact he is involved in illegal activities (drug use) mean NOTHING?? Does this great Canadian law of ours expect me to stay with someone like this? Because if I have to pay his way through life, then I might as well have stayed. Does our law actually condone behaviour like my ex's? Apparently so. If it were anyone else, would they not be put in jail for drug use, and not providing (the necessities of life) for their children?

My lawyer suggests that he must first be found to be entitled. He does not believe that he is. I find it very disheartening that the people who have responded to my question disagree. Do you think I am completely wasting my money and time? Do you believe I should just shrug my shoulders and say, "okay" -- and then have to take myself and child out of our home, because now I can't afford to live there.

Don't get me wrong -- I do appreciate everyone's input, even if it sounds like I don't agree with your responses, but I guess I just find it hard to believe that laws like this exist. I have a definite problem (not just because it is probably going to be me) with the "good" guy getting screwed over by the "bad" guy, and it seems to me this is happening all too often where our laws are concerned.

As for the previous question, yes, he was earning close to $40,000 in the early '90's, but got laid off from that position, and he never recovered - financially as well as emotionally he loved that job and was very lucky to get it having no education. He received a $10,000 severance package, to which I urged him to go to school, but he never did, and that is when he began to go to bingo. He mourned losing that job and that is when I knew he "lost" a part of himself because he could not get another job that paid near that amount of money.

Well, it should be interesting to see how this goes. I do intend to defend my position that he is not entitled though, however stupid and wrong I may be. I just don't feel a "plea bargain" here will do anything, I have tried so many times to negotiate with him, but he thinks he will get $12,000 per year for life from me, so how do you try to top that?

Hope everyone has a good week and stays safe.

Customgal
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2006, 09:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 141
gooddadgoingmad is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Customgal

I've been reading this thread and I just wanted to tell you that I can literally feel your frustration coming through the computer screen at me! I understand your frustration so greatly and I know how difficult it is to go through what you are going through. I have stopped posting here for a while now, not because I don't like what people are telling me, but because I have been judged and my personal story is being used against me. Example: I told the group that my ex is claiming to be disabled and I know she's totally not and is using it to obtain long-term spousal support. Never seen the woman spend one day in bed due to her dubious "disablility" yet all of a sudden she's claiming to be unable to get out of bed to go to work. I've had people here tell me to stop whining and the validity of what I am saying has been under fire and questioned on numerous occasions. That is a very difficult thing for me and it's the same as being called a liar as far as I'm concerned.

On the other hand, there are some very sympathetic and open ears here and I would tell you that I"ve received a lot of wonderful advice and a lot of understanding people. This is an extremely stressful time for you....for me too. It is a time when you need a soft place and kind words. For me, I have been severly depressed and suffering from anxiety attacks due to the situation I am in and some people here are not exactly sympathetic and don't always say things that are appropriate. I choose to completely ignore these messages. At a time when I am needing support and feeling so low that I question my will to go on, I certainly don't need to hear from someone who is judgemental or harsh. But, as I've said, the majority of people here are very wonderful and will offer you advice in a gentle way...they will listen to you and often times will say something simple that can make the difference to your day.

I feel your frustration! I am probably in the same place that you are right now when you are discovering how unfair the laws are. It's almost so overwhelmingly unfair and unjust that I cannot believe that educated people came up with them!!

Please feel free to email me personally if you are feeling a need to vent your frustrations. Sometimes when you do it here certain members feel a need to poop on you when you're already down! HA! Most of the members are very understanding though. Keep plugging away!! Vent if you need to and don't get discouraged! This site has a lot to offer and I think that when you're done venting and you get all your frustrations out, you will probably gain a lot from the knowledge other members have. Both from personal experience and also from a legal perspective.

I wish you the very best and you are in my thoughts.
Gooddadgoingmad
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2006, 09:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 225
Jenny is on a distinguished road
Default

I know the law seems to suck for you- but it is what it is. The advice given is based on the law and those guidelines. If it isn't what you want to hear that sucks but it is what it is.... sorry if that sounds bizarre.

The fact that what he is making isn't too far off what he has always made isn't a good sign for you either. If it looked like he made tons of money in the past and was capable of making more - then you could argue for income to be imputed to him.


Like Jeff said- the fact that you have kids and have at least a year of child support could work in your favour. He may take less spousal support for being released of the post secondary schooling and child support. I did mention something about that in a previous post. That and you may need to neogotiate a higher equilization payment etc...

Either that or as Jeff talked about( and didn't reccommend) is drag it out and take your chances that he will settle for less support then he may be entitled to or that the off chance the courts don't rule for him as he suggests they would ( I believe he said that court ordered support is usually higher and you end up paying a portion of his costs) Which would be very expensive in the long run. Which if you are willing to take that risk - go for it. I wouldn't if it was me. But that is me.

keep us updating on how things are going.....
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2006, 11:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 203
jlalex is on a distinguished road
Default

customgal, I truly feel for you, your frustration is obvious. I know that these laws do not make any sense and I truly hope you will not be ordered to pay. Perhaps a lot of us sound like a bunch of 'doomsdayers' but many of us have been dragged through these battles or know others who have and its not pretty by far.

It doesn't seem right that a person who is fully capable of supporting him or herself gets to rely on someone elses hard work to get by in their own life. From what I understand he will need to submit financial records in order to proove his 'need' and I doubt he's gonna put 'beer - $200/month, pot $100/month'.. on that paperwork and submit it to court...at least I hope he isn't that lacking in intelligence cause I'm quite sure that won't fly in front of a judge.

From my own limited exeperience I've gained through my own situation and a few friends, depending on a few financial factors ( such as if you even have any money left over at the end of the month) you have a 50/50 shot here. Whether thats good news or bad news to you..you'll have to decide.


I really hope changes to these laws are forthcoming in the near future..although marriage is a partnership I don't think one person should be bonded to another forever and ever if the marriage doesn't work out..and hopefully there can be an idea of personal responsibility brought to court proceedings in the not too distant future.

I hope things turn out well for you, and as much as anyone can say here the only people who can really give you a pretty solid opinion are your lawyer(s) as they know the depth of your situation.

Good luck to you!!
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2006, 11:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 225
Jenny is on a distinguished road
Default

Although wouldn't it be quite funny if he did put his real figures down lol
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2006, 11:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 203
jlalex is on a distinguished road
Default

I'd pay to see the look on the judges face for sure!!!
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2006, 12:00 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 19
customgal is on a distinguished road
Default

Thank you everyone, I do appreciate your taking the time to write and offer advice.

Gooddadgoingmad, I just may take you up on your offer to e-mail you personally, so don't be surprised if you hear from me in the next few days.

As for his financial statement, he has yet to supply us with one. We have been asking for it since August. I think whatever figures he will put down on it will be lies or incorrect. I have a feeling he is going to say that he pays for things that he doesn't, but he is a terrible record/receipt keeper, so I am almost certain if he does that I will catch him, in which case, I would like to think his credibility will be at stake.

I have affidavits from people attesting to his bingo, booze, pot buying, etc. I will actually bet that he will have more money left over at the end of the month then I do, seeing as how I pay for the majority of everything. Won't that count for anything? Like I said before, I may make double what he makes, but I pay triple (or more) then what he pays. I really don't have that much money left over at the end of the month.

Unless the courts expect me to take my daughter out of her home to live God-knows-where because this credent is being selfish and greedy, I have no idea where this money is going to come from to pay him with.

I agree that it is a 50/50 shot, but I have to try it. These people, such as Gooddadgoingmad's ex and my ex, should not be paid out!

I have been doing alot of thinking about this...is there someone we can write to to voice our opinions about these laws? Some MP somewhere? Who is responsible for these laws? I would certainly love to send out a letter telling whoever the politicians who created this mess what a crock spousal support is. Especially today, when there are so many opportunities available, with gov't aid for education, etc. If anyone knows who I could send a letter to (I realize it will do very little good), I would appreciate that.

Maybe if enough of us who are getting screwed over voice our opinion, it will make someone take a closer look at the havoc that they have created.

Canada has got to stop being a country of complainers who do nothing about the messed up laws here and take an example from our neighbour to the south -- the U.S. would never sit back and take this.

I know I am probably dreaming, but like I said, maybe if enough of us write Ottawa and tell them what our experiences are with the Family Law Act, something will be done -- sooner rather then later.

Customgal
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2006, 09:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 225
Jenny is on a distinguished road
Default

God I am having a pain posting today lol sorry if this appears more than once.

Customgal- I read in another thread your daughter has three more years of high school plus college? THAT is definitely in your favour. Child support unlike spousal isn't tax deductable to the payor. That could be 7 years of child support he would have to pay. That would definitely be something to negotiate with him. He doesn't have to contribute to her education and support her and he waives or accepts less spousal (which is taxable to him) Your son is living common law so he is pretty much out of the picture. But your daughter- especially if she is going to school after high school another story Good news about the records too. That is the biggest thing I have learned after this- better records! If you give him a huge list of what you have been covering , what he would owe you for child support/university costs etc. You might scare the carp out of him. August is far too long to wait for his disclosure! Not sure what your options are here with this - what does your lawyer say about this?? ?It pretty much stalls everything until that is done. I wonder what they can do to compell him to submit his?

About showing your displeasure ... I would write to your MP imo. I would suggest a letter to the editor of your paper but that could end up biting you in the butt with the courts. Maybe others would have better options. It will be a long time before seeing reform though. The courts will swing back and forth as they have been - right now we are looking at record high support orders. Not a time to take your chances imho.

Have you set a number in your head to what you would spend on this? ( really meaning financially- but emotionally as well?) 10 000? 25 000? 50 000? 100 000? Might be something to think about before you get too much into the fight. Forgive me if I am wrong but I think it was Grace who was given an estimate from her lawyers that it would be 100 000 by the time it was over. I've heard lots of people who have spent easily 30 000 on lawyers and court fees. Freaks me right out! I know he doesn't have the money - but maybe he is building up a debt and/or feels confident that you will end up paying 1/2 - 2/3 of his costs too- who knows what he is thinking I estimate my amicable divorce will cost about 10 000 after both of us pay the lawyers. We should have done it differently but this was the way we ended up going. BTW - we both get along well and it is just negotiations. Nothing too big and the cost is still pretty high. Just food for thought. I know if I had known it would end up being this expensive - we may have done it another way.

I take it you don't believe in spousal support under any situation? I personally believe it serves a good purpose and as with many things can be abused( I would not lump gooddad's wife in there personally!)

gooddadgoingmad- hmmmmm I wonder who you could be talking about in your post LMAO. Thought you were going to ignore me?

Sorry I don't have sympathy for your financial situation. Your wife stayed at home 17 yrs - 6 yrs with your daughter and is now on welfare while you make 95 000 a year now. I don't believe that your wife deserves nothing as you do. Very few people would imo. Hell, I think $600/mt was very reasonable! I would imagine she will get more if it goes further. And with her welfare and legal aide it will. Hell welfare will make her go for support. They believe that the former spouse has the obligation over the state. BTW - even without her documented disability she would still get it- by staying at home and in a long term marriage -that alone would entitle her.

I do have sympathy for you being away from your daughter. Sure I think it is sad you have anxiety and depression issues as MANY of us do. I hope counselling helps for you. That and medication can work wonders.

Since you are ignoring my posts I don't expect to hear from you lol I expect to hear little things like this in the future- feel free to name names - we all know who you are talking about.

jenny
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2006, 11:50 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3
Kimber is on a distinguished road
Default

Hello group:

I've been a guest for a while, browsing the posts and learning a lot from this fantastic forum. I've considered posting for a while but it wasn't until I read Jenny's post that I felt the need to say something.

I think it is completely unnecessary for you to behave the way you are. I've been following all the posts here and I notice an ongoing tendency with you Jenny and it's obvious that you have some disdain for men and you seem to be on a warpath about spousal support. I hate having to read posts like yours which are a deterrent to becoming a member of this group. I'm going through a lot in my life and the last thing I would need is to come across a member like you who is nasty. Is is really necessary to put ( lol's ) in your posts? Personally, I think you've got far too much time on your hands. It's because of people like you that I have avoided posting anything here. Time to get a life girl!

Good dad going mad, I've read all of your posts and I feel for your situation. Jenny is trying to get to you, obviously. I too have an ex spouse who is lieing and is lazy. He is also on welfare and refuses to go to work. It's a very difficult thing when you work so hard while the other person does nothing. Keep trying to contact your little boy. I can only imagine how hard it must be for you, living in isolation and your ex getting in the way of your contact with your child. How selfish.

Keep the faith!
Kim
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:28 AM.