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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
What if your ex is just permanently high conflict? Are you supposed to never travel internationally with the kids until they are adults? What a lot of missed opportunities.
Resolving conflict != being perfect happy co-parents. It has many resolutions. Like a proper court order that includes a detailed parenting plan that covers all sorts of things like travel. If you do not have the proper agreement/court order in place then you should (a) do that first and then (b) travel. If you do not have (a) done then don't think that (b) is going to be easy to do.

Resolve the conflict - through the courts, between the parents, through arbitration, etc... FIRST!
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Resolving conflict != being perfect happy co-parents. It has many resolutions. Like a proper court order that includes a detailed parenting plan that covers all sorts of things like travel. If you do not have the proper agreement/court order in place then you should (a) do that first and then (b) travel. If you do not have (a) done then don't think that (b) is going to be easy to do.

Resolve the conflict - through the courts, between the parents, through arbitration, etc... FIRST!
If you've got an interim travel order that would contain everything that a final travel order would, what difference does it make if it is interim or final? If the parent is difficult they are going to be difficult regardless of the middle of the fight or the end of the fight. They may actually be more willing to cooperate in the middle of the fight to avoid it being used against them at a later date. Especially when your lawyer threatens urgent motions.

Looks like I'll be getting the passport. Nobody would want costs ordered against them just before Christmas.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 03:14 PM
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If you've got an interim travel order that would contain everything that a final travel order would, what difference does it make if it is interim or final?
If you have an order bring a contempt motion and seek your costs for the trip and legal fees. Also when you ask for the contempt ask for one of the stipulations to be that you can travel without the consent of the other parent and you hold the passports.

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If the parent is difficult they are going to be difficult regardless of the middle of the fight or the end of the fight. They may actually be more willing to cooperate in the middle of the fight to avoid it being used against them at a later date. Especially when your lawyer threatens urgent motions.
But, you did the right thing. Also you don't threaten motions. Everyone in this country has the right to bring a court action to resolve a dispute. It isn't a threat. Should the other parent have failed to follow what was agreed upon you have EVERY RIGHT to bring a motion for resolution of the dispute. Judges always roll their eyes when someone says "they threatened me with a motion". That is trying to play victim when you are allowed to bring court actions. The only time they can use this as a claim is if you have been declared a vexatious litigant.

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Originally Posted by trinton View Post
Looks like I'll be getting the passport. Nobody would want costs ordered against them just before Christmas.
More than likely the lawyer on the other side gave the parent in question a strong talking to about their conduct. You would have been able to claim the loss of the travel, tickets, etc.. as well as the legal costs. Also, you would have gained probably an order to what I mentioned above.

It is really a bad idea to play games like this. But, the first step in stopping the "gaming" in Family Law is a properly written agreement or order.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 03:59 PM
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I have a great deal of respect for Tayken's advise. The theory and law is correct but in my experience family law doesn't actually follow that.
My two cents are a bit different. I did try the contempt motion for exactly this and I did win the motion.....eventually. It took about 7 months to work through the system. By that time vacation came and went, children disappointment and money lost. The judge almost laughed me out of the court room when asked for travel, tickets etc.. gave the other party a whopping fine of $500 that he never paid because wasn't classified as child support and my costs which he also did not pay.
Hate to say it but if what you are doing Trinton is working do it. Not sure where you live but here in the Durham Region of Ontario family law is very very broken.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2016, 04:03 PM
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The threat of a motion to get an order for your to get a passport without their involvement on it's own alone should be enough to get them to comply. The threat would be obviously made in friendly terms by your lawyer. Their lawyer would likely not want to represent them if they don't take their lawyers advice.

Contempt motions don't go hand in hand for joint-custody. Or so I have heard.

Last edited by trinton; 12-21-2016 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:39 PM
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Florida is not the only holiday destination. Disneyland is not the only place kids will enjoy. Take the kids somewhere in Canada - Vancouver, Halifax and Montreal are all excellent child-friendly destinations. Don't get fixated on the idea that all kids need the Disneyland magic (it is very overrated and not really a mind-broadening experience, unless you're deep into consumerism). Your high-conflict divorce may mean that your travel is restricted (unless you want to spend hours and $$$$$ fighting with Mom about it), but that doesn't mean the kids have to stay home for years.
Ended up serving a motion to get the passport without her consent, as well as birth certificates with the assistance of the police. She ended up complying with the initial order when the 2nd motion was served. The travel took place and my daughter and I had an absolute blast.

I would never take her somewhere in Canada - especially in the winter. I would not waste my money in this country in the winter. Disney World and Disneyland are different. Disney world is in Florida and Disneyland is in California. Disney World is the popular tourist attraction. I found it is rather underrated. It is a mind-broadening experience. I loved both Florida and both Disney world parks. Florida is the most beautiful place I have ever seen on Earth. I love Florida.

Florida is beautiful. We loved it. We have a much closer relationship as a result and were not too excited about having to return back to Canada. It's quite cold and depressing in Canada.

Last edited by trinton; 01-05-2017 at 08:42 PM.
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