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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2015, 07:37 PM
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Question Parental Alienation- what steps to take

I apologise up front for having to provide some background info. I have been here many times but it's been a while
Daughter 8.5 years old
Custody: joint with mom having medical and dad having education
time: 50/50
History: dad was abusive, never charged but documented (photos) and by some professionals (doctor and counselor).
OCL involvement when child was 3-4 recommended above arrangement

Its been 6 years. And slowly my child has been poisoned. She has been hit by her dad, CAS has been involved no less than 7 times with nothing but a recommendation he attend parenting and anger management classes. After last CAS involvement (child self reported to counselor) he threatened her that "if she ever told anyone about bad things at Dad's house again he would send her to live with her mom forever" Sounds great but it's a withdrawal and rejection to her.
Child now refuses to see any sort of counselor for this reason. I've been trying for months to get her in to see someone and NOBODY will help us.

Things have gotten so bad that she is now outright lying to him, telling him I wont let her call him, telling exaggerated negative things about my time. She is happy to chat with him when with me but is now refusing to accept my calls. He does not give her privacy. She is telling him whatever she thinks he wants to hear, regardless if it is an outright lie. I explained to her that dad is saving up all those lies and eventually the judge will take her away from me.

thing is she tells me horrible things happen there sometimes. Like last Monday when she forgot her glasses at my house so they had to cancel an eye appointment "dad was so angry I thought he was going to kill me". She was sobbing.

its a horrible situation where my child is being pulled and torn apart. I've tried to step back and stop pulling, but he just finds something else to come after me with. He is slowly poisoning her and she is buying into it. She now believes i dont hug and kiss her enough, and all sorts of things that are being fed into her ear. Just tonight she refused to talk to me on the phone. The next thing I get is a text from him claiming I made her cry and what did I say and I shouldn't be forcing her to talk to me and get angry at her when she says no. All untrue.

I've spoken to Duty Counsel and they said FILE NOW. Then I spoke to a lawyer who said because she is now lying and believing his lies there is a chance that it will follow through and even OCL wont see it. He said she NEEDS counseling first.

I am stuck and I really need advice from people who have been there. Please help. I've been fighting this monster and trying to allow them to have a relationship but it can't be at the expense of mine with her, and with my child's mental and emotional health.
TIA
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Old 06-05-2015, 07:58 PM
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ugh you are worried about your kids mental and emotional health yet you tell her that "I explained to her that dad is saving up all those lies and eventually the judge will take her away from me." That puts even more pressure on the kid. Now the poor thing probably doesn't know what to do. She is going to try and please everyone and it will tear her apart.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billiechic View Post
I apologise up front for having to provide some background info. I have been here many times but it's been a while
Daughter 8.5 years old
Custody: joint with mom having medical and dad having education
time: 50/50
History: dad was abusive, never charged but documented (photos) and by some professionals (doctor and counselor).
OCL involvement when child was 3-4 recommended above arrangement

Its been 6 years. And slowly my child has been poisoned. She has been hit by her dad, CAS has been involved no less than 7 times with nothing but a recommendation he attend parenting and anger management classes. After last CAS involvement (child self reported to counselor) he threatened her that "if she ever told anyone about bad things at Dad's house again he would send her to live with her mom forever" Sounds great but it's a withdrawal and rejection to her.
Child now refuses to see any sort of counselor for this reason. I've been trying for months to get her in to see someone and NOBODY will help us.

Things have gotten so bad that she is now outright lying to him, telling him I wont let her call him, telling exaggerated negative things about my time. She is happy to chat with him when with me but is now refusing to accept my calls. He does not give her privacy. She is telling him whatever she thinks he wants to hear, regardless if it is an outright lie. I explained to her that dad is saving up all those lies and eventually the judge will take her away from me.

thing is she tells me horrible things happen there sometimes. Like last Monday when she forgot her glasses at my house so they had to cancel an eye appointment "dad was so angry I thought he was going to kill me". She was sobbing.

its a horrible situation where my child is being pulled and torn apart. I've tried to step back and stop pulling, but he just finds something else to come after me with. He is slowly poisoning her and she is buying into it. She now believes i dont hug and kiss her enough, and all sorts of things that are being fed into her ear. Just tonight she refused to talk to me on the phone. The next thing I get is a text from him claiming I made her cry and what did I say and I shouldn't be forcing her to talk to me and get angry at her when she says no. All untrue.

I've spoken to Duty Counsel and they said FILE NOW. Then I spoke to a lawyer who said because she is now lying and believing his lies there is a chance that it will follow through and even OCL wont see it. He said she NEEDS counseling first.

I am stuck and I really need advice from people who have been there. Please help. I've been fighting this monster and trying to allow them to have a relationship but it can't be at the expense of mine with her, and with my child's mental and emotional health.
TIA
I think YOU need to seek some professional counselling and support first.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:57 PM
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From the outside-looking-inside it seems that you are fear-mongering your child so you are no better than the other parent.

I would recommend a form of family therapy.

The text-messaging with your ex is getting you where?

Avoidance of counselling and delving into cell phone texting so that you can avoid face-to-face response seems to be your way of communication. It doesn't work.

Once you put up a retainer the lawyer will tell you whatever you want to hear.

Kid needs counselling after the parents have calmed down and sought their own sort of counselling/mediation. How would a counsellor advise a child to deal with warring parents? Duck?
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billiechic View Post
I apologise up front for having to provide some background info. I have been here many times but it's been a while
Daughter 8.5 years old
Custody: joint with mom having medical and dad having education
time: 50/50
History: dad was abusive, never charged but documented (photos) and by some professionals (doctor and counselor).
OCL involvement when child was 3-4 recommended above arrangement

Its been 6 years. And slowly my child has been poisoned. She has been hit by her dad, CAS has been involved no less than 7 times with nothing but a recommendation he attend parenting and anger management classes. After last CAS involvement (child self reported to counselor) he threatened her that "if she ever told anyone about bad things at Dad's house again he would send her to live with her mom forever" Sounds great but it's a withdrawal and rejection to her.
Child now refuses to see any sort of counselor for this reason. I've been trying for months to get her in to see someone and NOBODY will help us.

Things have gotten so bad that she is now outright lying to him, telling him I wont let her call him, telling exaggerated negative things about my time. She is happy to chat with him when with me but is now refusing to accept my calls. He does not give her privacy. She is telling him whatever she thinks he wants to hear, regardless if it is an outright lie. I explained to her that dad is saving up all those lies and eventually the judge will take her away from me.

thing is she tells me horrible things happen there sometimes. Like last Monday when she forgot her glasses at my house so they had to cancel an eye appointment "dad was so angry I thought he was going to kill me". She was sobbing.

its a horrible situation where my child is being pulled and torn apart. I've tried to step back and stop pulling, but he just finds something else to come after me with. He is slowly poisoning her and she is buying into it. She now believes i dont hug and kiss her enough, and all sorts of things that are being fed into her ear. Just tonight she refused to talk to me on the phone. The next thing I get is a text from him claiming I made her cry and what did I say and I shouldn't be forcing her to talk to me and get angry at her when she says no. All untrue.

I've spoken to Duty Counsel and they said FILE NOW. Then I spoke to a lawyer who said because she is now lying and believing his lies there is a chance that it will follow through and even OCL wont see it. He said she NEEDS counseling first.

I am stuck and I really need advice from people who have been there. Please help. I've been fighting this monster and trying to allow them to have a relationship but it can't be at the expense of mine with her, and with my child's mental and emotional health.
TIA
WTF? Gatekeeper/control freakish?
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:11 PM
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Seek help.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:19 PM
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There is no doubt that billichic has been through the gauntlet (check her posts going back to 2009). It just seems to me (anonymous poster on the internet) that the go-to thing is/was for her to call CAS/OCS etc. if things didn't go her way.

Call me a bitch I don't care. I'm sure, as she is a "regular" with the various child welfare agencies, that there are better answers for her.

Kids grow and form their own opinions. It is not surprising that the child in this situation is rebelling if she is faced with continuous threats of loss of a parent by a judge.

Just sayin
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Old 06-06-2015, 02:33 AM
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It is obvious that she is desperate and is trying to fight fire with fire and when things get out of control then many of us would do that.

This sentence also supports that: "if she ever told anyone about bad things at Dad's house again he would send her to live with her mom forever" Sounds great but it's a withdrawal and rejection to her.

My ex has been an alienator but she failed because she bought my threats about court actions. Tia's ex obviously knows how play this game.

Does "give it time and be the good parent, things will get back to normal" really work? Maybe. But I know people who waited and kids turned their back on them totally.

The child is too old to make up lies and stick by them. But whatever you do, do not talk to her that dad is liar. There are other ways to have this kid get back to normal despite ex's continuous poisoning because the PA syndrome has not occured yet.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:42 PM
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If your ex is the person whom you have described here, at the age of 8.5 years, it seems clear your child is only doing what she can to preserve herself, by any means. Unlikely she’ll self-report again, given she received no assistance the last time around.

Dealing with a systematic abuser takes patience – as you yourself should be aware after the many years you spent with your ex. I would focus on giving the kidlet the tools to deal with the anger and abuse she receives when she is with the ex. And we can teach our children the tools to be safe, without putting fear into them.

You need to avoid forcing her to choose between her two parents (she can’t make that choice) and contributing to any further stress to her. And you can’t rely on the legal system to protect her - there is no quick fix – the abusers still, for the most part, get away.

I can assure you – children seek the light, and she is not “buying into it” , she is very aware. Continue to hug her, and kiss her. If calling her when she is with him stresses her out, stop calling. She should know you have her back and you can give her that comfort 110% when she is with you and it will carry forward to her time with your ex.

You can discuss bullying techniques and personal empowerment, without directing at your ex. At this age, you should also be speaking to her in an age-appropriate manner of sexual abuse and predators – that would not be a leap. Consider enrolling her in programs that focus on personal strength and empowerment – Scouts, Guides, church programs, etc.

What on earth is duty counsel telling you to file for, when there is no material change in circumstance?
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Old 06-07-2015, 12:49 AM
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Wow. So how is your little girl doing in school? and does she have a best friend? and is she healthy?
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