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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2014, 12:45 AM
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Question Options other then the OCL?

My X's lawyer has stated that she will be filling a Motion to have the Office of the Children's Lawyer review the case for the purpose of having the OCL represent our 8 year old daughter in the custody battle.

This cannot happen because my X manipulates and coerces her to his desire chronically and proof of this (aside form what I already know to be true) has just been presented through police reports which were added to our family court file this week.

I will be fighting the Motion (either self represented or with counsel) based on the manipulative factor; but I'm thinking I should also have some viable alternatives which would serve a similar purpose to what the OCL could provide wherein my daughter will not be given so much legal 'weight' which will essentially lead to more manipulation and trauma to her during an already difficult time.

I'm thinking a Child Psychologist would be better at dealing with children who are placed under manipulative pressure, and can also read right through the signs of such, rather then an OCL associate; but I'm open to any and all ideas that anyone can provide which may be a gentler way for my daughter to be heard without being given a trump card which my X will be all too eager to exploit.


Thanks
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:56 AM
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I am confused. The OCL are trained to see above the manipulation of a parent. They speak for the child. They meet with the child alone. Why would you not want them to seek the truth?

The only drawback I have heard is that they tend to be slow and usually take months to report.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:13 AM
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OCL are crap! Child psychologist is good option . Go with names of child psychs that you would like to use. Do your research and be peepared
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachnana View Post
I am confused. The OCL are trained to see above the manipulation of a parent. They speak for the child. They meet with the child alone. Why would you not want them to seek the truth?

The only drawback I have heard is that they tend to be slow and usually take months to report.
Thanks for your reply,

I'm sure that OLC can see things quite well; but my primary concern is not that they see this manipulation for my benefit rather my biggest concern is my X will manipulate my daughter more emphatically if she has a lawyer giving her statements greater impact on what happens in the case (Quote; Genie from Aladdin "Phenomenal Cosmic Power") then if it where a psychologist who is merely a witness ("itty bitty testimony").

If it were a healthy situation I'd have no problem with her having an OCL because I do believe that children's voices should be heard and their desires taken in to account; but only if it is in fact their own voices, not something which has been parroted by either of the parents.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:32 AM
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Ok I understand your thought process. You feel the father will manipulate the daughter the extent she will fool the OCL and become his puppet? That is pretty serious stuff. Do you have evidence to support that theory because if your ex's lawyer files a motion for OCL I would think you would need some compelling evidence to deny the use of OCL.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachnana View Post
Ok I understand your thought process. You feel the father will manipulate the daughter the extent she will fool the OCL and become his puppet?
Yes I know he will manipulate her and while my concern is not so much that she will convince anyone I don't think that placing a child in a situation where they are being forced to choose between truth or lies or which parent the love more (by having them choose between telling lies for one parent, or telling the truth for the other parent) is in any way healthy or acceptable.

There's a big difference between "Don't tell your mother we had pancakes for dinner" and "this what you need to say to _X_Y_Z_ to that X won't happen or so that we can have Y or so that Z won't be able to (whatever)"
I know my X well enough and have become privy to enough of this kind of mentality lately that he will make himself, his GF, my daughter and anyone else who is important to her the victim and he'll be telling our girl that she needs say or do certain things in order to protect whoever my X is using at the time.

Whether they believe her not- I don't much care; but what they need to do is recognize this happening and be able to state to a Court of law the impact that such unhealthy manipulation has on a child to help me get her out of there, and it is that particular effort and for that reason I am thinking a child psychologist is a better choice then the OCL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachnana View Post
That is pretty serious stuff.
Yes it is
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachnana View Post
Do you have evidence to support that theory because if your ex's lawyer files a motion for OCL I would think you would need some compelling evidence to deny the use of OCL.
Yes I do.

My own observations:

Things which I had observed happened with my Xs (what I had though to be slight) manipulations of our daughter in the past; little things like:
  • starting to say something but stopping before she's done.
  • corrected what she said with some different and trying to 'convince me' that the second story was true.
  • pausing to over think answers to every day questions when certain situations or persons may have been present.
It was obvious that she was hiding something, or being told not to disclose certain things.
I didn't make a big deal about it because I didn't want to place her even more 'in the middle' then she already was, and I was aware enough of my X's life that I knew what she was being influenced to conceal... Nothing criminal or 'dangerous'; in fact most, if not all of it, was surrounding his newest GF but my daughter would usually tell me later on, after whatever 'odd tension we had between us prior' what the truth was and then would I ask if "Daddy had told her to say that" she would nod her head yes.

Because the lies were small enough keeping the peace between me and my X, as well as making sure he did not increase manipulation of her in attempt to have her hold more secretes (causing her more trauma) or have her feel in any way guilty for telling her mother the truth- I did not say anything to him; but told my daughter that she could always tell me anything she ever wanted to or thought she should, even if Daddy says not to tell me, and I tried my best to handle the situation gently.


Witness/Victim:

Since our custody battle began 3 months ago, my 13 year old son (from a previous relationship) has come forward with some of the manipulations his former step father had pressed upon him in telling me lies and hiding his 'secretes' for him.
Again, nothing criminal or any way 'dangerous' and everything which I've been thus far has been in reference to the GF; but the fact that my X had my own child (by my own child I mean one w which my X does not share blood, custody or any responsibility for) lie to me about something so trivial was both gross and completely necessary.


Police Statements:

We're at the point in our custody dispute where police incident reports and CAS records have been Ordered by the court so I now get to see exactly what happened on the other side.

CAS reports have not yet arrived; but police reports have and in reading them yesterday I see that my daughter had been questioned (in a false report which was made against me by my X and his GF) along with the GF's 2 children and the GF herself.

GF twisted the truth to make things more extreme, aggressive and violent then what they in fact were (adult witness supports the truth of the matter) and as it was stated in the police report my X and his GF "helped the children remember what had happened" before they gave there statement to police.

The youngest (GFs son) said he saw and remembered nothing.
The older girl (GFs daughter) told the exact same thing as the mother had said.
My daughter told a blend of what she was 'supposed to say' and what in fact really did happen; but at the most critical point of the telling it was stated that she did not actually say anything, she just pointed to her arm.

Reading that broke my heart because I knew that they had tried to convince her into lying to police and against her own mother; but it also made me very proud of my little girl because it shows that she knew what they had done to her was wrong and that telling the truth and doing the right thing is what we, as a family believe in. Also by sticking to the truth she had likely saved me from being charged with something I did not do and with which X and GF were trying to have me charged in an effort to harm me in our family court case.

I am so PROUD of my baby girl for doing the right thing!

But at the same time I am very hurt by the fact she had to go through that and that my X will spare no wrongdoing or emotional harm to the children in order to manipulate them in to doing what suits his own selfish needs, and that my daughter is trapped in a house where such unacceptable things happen, and where I cannot protect her from those things.


I will be using this manipulation factor and all it's supporting evidence in order to fight the not only the OCL but also in fighting for custody of my daughter to get her out of such an unstable, manipulative environment!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpinghands View Post
OCL are crap! Child psychologist is good option . Go with names of child psychs that you would like to use. Do your research and be peepared
lol crap you say... well then no thank you- I've got enough fertilizer courtesy of her father lol


I think a child psych is a good option but what kind of assessments can we have done our house holds and parenting abilities; does anyone know?
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:11 PM
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I believe that is called section 30 report.

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/clra30.htm
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:33 PM
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Sounds to me like you are the one with control issues. You seek to control the outcome of what the OCL May or may not find based on how you FEEL it should be.

Why not allow the involvement of the OCL it may turn out ok for you and it may not. If your not happy with the results from the OCL you are free to use professional assessments to discredit the report.


What is your position on custody?
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpinghands View Post
I believe that is called section 30 report.

Children's Law Reform Act section 30
Excellent link thank you!
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:07 PM
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It is best to let the OCL process work it's way through, give them the information and conserns you have but don't attack the other parent.
When it's all done and a report is given thats when you can dispute the report.
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