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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2017, 11:56 PM
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Default oh uh - other parent posturing to suspend/cancel weekday access

things are continuing to escalate in my situation and seem to be getting worst and worst with the recent access cancellations and silly accusations in order to reduce my access. The other parent simply wants to reduce whatever extra time she has been giving me and is now trying to completely block my access due to exchanges taking place at daycares. mind you the child isn't actually at daycare and other parent just uses daycare as an exchange point and brings her whole family and friends with her, some of which have filed affidavits against me in court including her mom and sister.

I appreciate everyone's support and am open to hear from you all regardless of us ever having got up on the wrong foot.

anyway, final order allows further times to be agreed upon in writing including a mid-week visit

mid-week was initially agreed on to be 6 - 7 and then expanded after a court date to 4 - 7. the expansion is not in any court order and is simply via email between other parent and I.

shortly after the expansion , the other parent reduced the time to 5 - 7 and I said no. she said child will not be ready for me at that time and actually didn't have child ready until her imposed time so I just started to show up at the newly imposed time of 5.

I continued to ask for more time and asked to be allowed to get child from school specially due to issues with the babysitter (CAS allegations between us and rude way of talking to me . insulting me, talking to me about CAS in front of child, etc ). I recently asked to expand access and the other parent said we will stick to our agreement last year. That agreement was of course for 4 and I showed up at 4 and was told nope it is actually 5. A day later she came back wanting to reduce the pickup time even more (5:30) accusing me of not feeding the child. I said no and reminded her that our original agreement was actually 4.

Other parent continued to say no and recently sent a nasty email telling me to "stop playing games and stop bitching about the issues with babysitter" and said that I must send a 3rd party to pickup my kid for me. The imposed pickup time (5-7) by the other parent has been in place for a year. I asked that our child be ready at the initial time we agreed on (4 - 7) and that our lawyers could talk about changing the schedule.

Q: Was I reasonable in recently requesting that our child be ready for the 4 time while our lawyers talk if I have been getting child at 5 for the last year ? Should i have asked for the 5:00 time instead ? The 5:00 time was never agreed on - I simply received a message a year ago that the child wouldn't be made available to me until 5.

Q: If the other parent and babysitter don't want to do exchanges at their residence and use that to deny me any time - what is the best approach around this

I am considering getting child from school but want to avoid just showing up at the school without an agreement.

Q: How about in the case of the weekends - weekends used to be Saturdays pickups but were expanded as part of our email agreement to Friday pickups.
The pickup times are same as pickup times mentioned here for the weekday/mid-week visit access and feel may turn into an issue with this whole I must send a 3rd party to pick up the child nonsense.

Q: Can she just simply say we could not agree on a mid-week access and use that to deny me mid-week? Would the email agreement be considered a valid agreement as per the order that states as such further and other times as we can agree in writing including a -mid week visit ? Would this imply that an agreement must be reached for every week or we reach an agreement and that will be in place until we reach a new agreement ?

Last edited by trinton; 05-03-2017 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 05-03-2017, 01:37 AM
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What is in your court order? That has the times you must go by, and they can only be deviated from by mutual agreement.

If you mutually agree to expand the time on an ongoing basis, to make it become new permanently legal version, you must write up some sort of form and submit it to the court to have new wording replace that section in the original court order. I think it's called a motion on consent, but someone can correct me if I'm confused.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you missed your chance to enshrine the 4-7 permanently. You can now either return to the court ordered times, accept your ex's 5-7 offer on consent, make your own offer (presumably you have already offered that the start time be picking the child up at school but if you haven't you should do so) or take her back to court to ask that the time be officially changed.

From what you describe of your situation, I think it's best to do whatever you can to get the pickup to be at the child's school and skip all this stressful nonsense with your ex and the babysitter and the relatives being present.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:37 AM
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My first lawyer very clearly spelled out to me that you have to follow your court order and that no, you can not mutually deviate from a court order! In that case you are both in contempt.
Especially in a high conflict situation. Stick to your court order. Go back to court. The judge can make a new order which has in place remedies to address your ex's behaviour such as pick up and drop off at school, a schedule for expanded access, costs awards, and if your ex continues with her behaviour there is always reversal of custody.

File a motion and have her behaviour and pick up at school addressed. You are giving her too much power. Power that she should not have and that the judge can easily take away. Going to court before a judge is your only solution. Do it.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
What is in your court order? That has the times you must go by, and they can only be deviated from by mutual agreement.

If you mutually agree to expand the time on an ongoing basis, to make it become new permanently legal version, you must write up some sort of form and submit it to the court to have new wording replace that section in the original court order. I think it's called a motion on consent, but someone can correct me if I'm confused.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you missed your chance to enshrine the 4-7 permanently. You can now either return to the court ordered times, accept your ex's 5-7 offer on consent, make your own offer (presumably you have already offered that the start time be picking the child up at school but if you haven't you should do so) or take her back to court to ask that the time be officially changed.

From what you describe of your situation, I think it's best to do whatever you can to get the pickup to be at the child's school and skip all this stressful nonsense with your ex and the babysitter and the relatives being present.
further clarification, the order doesn't specific a time for the mid-week visits, just says every other weekend saturday 9am to sunday 5pm and other times as the parties can agree including a mid week visit. I assume this to mean that we MUST agree on a mid-week visit.

the 4PM pickup was in place for 2 months and she reduced it claiming child was crying not wanting to see me (a lie) and wanted more time to play at the daycares after school (also a lie). this was obviously just before summer and I asked how this was a concern if it was the last week of school - she said it's to meed the hours required by for child to be in daycare . It was more to do with daycare daily hour requirements. This was not re-adjusted after summer and my request was turned down.

To be clear, her latest condition was a further reduction to 5:30 pm alleging that I'm not feeding the child (I did not agree with this request) and now that I must bring a relative.

the 4:00 time was specifically agreed upon - she had me send an email back confirming the details and that I would agree to all of the terms.

Q: The way I communicated to her was basically that I will show up at agreed upon time of 4:00 and the lawyers can discuss any changes. should I just show up at the 4:00 time and wait until 5:30 ? any sort of communication that should go to the other parent while I'm waiting to document I was there the entire duration ?

I don't think she would show up until the 5:30 time regardless - to which I'm obviously not going to agree to - I take care of the child adequately . and Now I don't think she will show up unless I bring a relative.

Q: had I proposed that I will be there at 5:00 would that have been more reasonable as that's what's has been happening for the last year? Or is the 4:00 also reasonable as that is what we agreed to in writing (email) ?

We are already in court for the last couple years - a motion to change by me to change from sole to joint and from every other weekend to 5-5-2-2 schedule.

I am hopeful to see if she will respond with anything.

Last edited by trinton; 05-03-2017 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinton View Post
further clarification, the order doesn't specific a time for the mid-week visits, just says every other weekend saturday 9am to sunday 5pm and other times as the parties can agree including a mid week visit. I assume this to mean that we MUST agree on a mid-week visit.
Judges are so foolishly optimistic when they put in stuff about mutually agreed upon extra time. Obviously this judge intended there to be at least one mid-week visit and possibly more, and assumed you could work the details out yourselves. You are seeing how well that works with an unreasonable gate-keeping ex right now.

The default setting of your agreement is that you have the child from Sat 9am to Sunday 5pm every other week, and the mother has the child the rest of existence. Anything else must be agreed upon. So all your ex has to do is not agree with anything, and presto, she's controlling the situation completely.

Now that you have learned that she is being unreasonable, your only recourse is to return to court and tell the judge that the court order was overly optimistic about her ability to work with you, and ask that mid-week and any additional time (such as your 50-50 request) be spelled out in court order instead of relying on mutual agreement.

Meanwhile, make lots of requests for extra time, lots of reasonable proposals for pickup that reduce stress, and keep a journal of every time she says no. Take EVERY opportunity for extra time that she does give you. Be sure to make offers to settle that suggest a good fixed schedule with times you want.
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Old 05-03-2017, 11:50 AM
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Judges are so foolishly optimistic when they put in stuff about mutually agreed upon extra time. Obviously this judge intended there to be at least one mid-week visit and possibly more, and assumed you could work the details out yourselves. You are seeing how well that works with an unreasonable gate-keeping ex right now.

The default setting of your agreement is that you have the child from Sat 9am to Sunday 5pm every other week, and the mother has the child the rest of existence. Anything else must be agreed upon. So all your ex has to do is not agree with anything, and presto, she's controlling the situation completely.

Now that you have learned that she is being unreasonable, your only recourse is to return to court and tell the judge that the court order was overly optimistic about her ability to work with you, and ask that mid-week and any additional time (such as your 50-50 request) be spelled out in court order instead of relying on mutual agreement.

Meanwhile, make lots of requests for extra time, lots of reasonable proposals for pickup that reduce stress, and keep a journal of every time she says no. Take EVERY opportunity for extra time that she does give you. Be sure to make offers to settle that suggest a good fixed schedule with times you want.
Agreed. Makes me wonder if the communication was so good between us that the additional time / holidays was to be figured out between us then why was it not an order for joint custody ?

anyway. we have been in court for 2 years now and finally getting the OCL appointed.

The only times I have turned down offers from her was when she said I must take the child to a extra curricular activity that she chose during my holiday time - to which I said no and the other one was when she cancelled my weekend that fell on Easter (After I asked to extend my weekend to include MOnday and Friday) and offered makeup weekend the following weekend that I must pickup child from daycare - there was no agreement as I wanted to pickup from school and she said I must accept within 2 hours of the email or I don't get the time - I went back however and chose a weekend for makup (given that I should be the one to choose the makup weekend not her telling me what weekend to get and on what terms.)

Anyway, back to this pickup drama. How can I get the mid-week visits to take place in the interim while the lawyers talk? I guess I have to just show up and see what happens ? I'm not going to drag relatives and friends to go and pickup my kid for me - that's just ridiculous .

Yes, indeed she is gatekeeping unilaterally setting my times telling me where and when and how to see my own kids.
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:18 PM
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How can I get the mid-week visits to take place in the interim while the lawyers talk?
Dear Ex,

I am available to spend time with the kids on Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday or next week. Please tell me which day and time would be most convenient for you. If I do not hear from you by Sunday I will assume that Wednesday works the best. I will be at your place to pick up the kidlet at 4pm, and have her back by 8pm.

Yours sincerely,

Awesome Dad

Rinse and repeat every week. Track every denial. Bring to court.
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:32 PM
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Dear Ex,

I am available to spend time with the kids on Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday or next week. Please tell me which day and time would be most convenient for you. If I do not hear from you by Sunday I will assume that Wednesday works the best. I will be at your place to pick up the kidlet at 4pm, and have her back by 8pm.

Yours sincerely,

Awesome Dad

Rinse and repeat every week. Track every denial. Bring to court.

that would give her too much power. dont you think? mid weeks have always been on a wednesday. not only can she change times now she can screw around with the days as well. if i agree to the later time then esently im agreeing that i should have less time due to her allegations that im not feeding the kids and should have less time as a result dont you think?

now that you mentioned tues thursday.. if the visit doesn't take place then i think a makeup request on another day of the week chosen by me would make more sense I think.

she still owes me a long weekend of hers for cancelling my easter long weekend last minute.

Last edited by trinton; 05-03-2017 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:54 PM
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Good luck getting owed time my friend.

I feel for you .. fighting tooth and nail with a gatekeeper who makes allegations, impulsively cancels your Easter weekend, makes trouble for the court appointed midweek visits, etc. How often do we see this trash.

Your ex likes to have complete control and cancel/limit your access whenever she pleases. Her unilateral decision making and inability to encourage a relationship between you and your children will hurt her in court.

She's playing the yo yo game of sending emails agreeing to things then abruptly cancelling them for BS reasons.

It's time for a motion for this nonsense. Get some ironclad orders in there instead of these e-mail agreements, which are basically garbage....(but will help you immensely in court).

- doesn't feed the child
- cant have Easter because not catholic
- child doesn't want to see you
- do what I want on your time (extra curricular activities) or I cancel access
- etc

I actually smell a custody change if she keeps up and/or escalates.
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Old 05-03-2017, 03:07 PM
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Good luck getting owed time my friend.

I feel for you .. fighting tooth and nail with a gatekeeper who makes allegations, impulsively cancels your Easter weekend, makes trouble for the court appointed midweek visits, etc. How often do we see this trash.

Your ex likes to have complete control and cancel/limit your access whenever she pleases. Her unilateral decision making and inability to encourage a relationship between you and your children will hurt her in court.

She's playing the yo yo game of sending emails agreeing to things then abruptly cancelling them for BS reasons.

It's time for a motion for this nonsense. Get some ironclad orders in there instead of these e-mail agreements, which are basically garbage....(but will help you immensely in court).

- doesn't feed the child
- cant have Easter because not catholic
- child doesn't want to see you
- do what I want on your time (extra curricular activities) or I cancel access
- etc

I actually smell a custody change if she keeps up and/or escalates.
don't forget the things shes instructed our kid to say to third parties that were reported to cas and came back unfounded.. to dycare that I hit the child and to school that I was going to throw our child in a lake to drown her.......

my lawyer actually smells and ocl report in my favour. i asked for motion before but my lawyer only wanted to deal with christmas at that time and for us to reaolve these things. now hes going to resolve with her lawyer and then court is last resort i guess. funny thing her lawyer is in agreement for me to get child from school but mom isn't..

lf32 how did you cope with all of this non sense when you had to go through this?
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